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bobm
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« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2013, 20:42:45 » |
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So not controlled from one 'box?
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SandTEngineer
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« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2013, 20:43:44 » |
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So not controlled from one 'box?
Yes most likely TVSC» at Didcot (well thats the plan anyway). But remember BR▸ once had an ambition to control the whole railway from 13 signalling centres and look what happened to that. |
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paul7575
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« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2013, 23:18:10 » |
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As I understand it, the regional operations centres (ROC▸ ) only centralise command and control - and within the ROC you have a roughly 'one to one' mapping between the new operator panels in the ROC, and the panels in the old area signalling centres, IECCS etc. However the interlocking (which enforces the system safety along the routes) can and does remain spread all over the network. The buzz word in much of the re-signalling descriptions is actually 're-control' which suggests to me centralising the operators but not all the hardware. For local signal boxes the idea seems to first move control into the local signalling centre, and then transplant that signalling centre into the appropriate ROC, perhaps only a few years later.
Modular signalling AFAICS▸ is basically just a term for standardisation of the line side interlocking stuff where practical; ie a simple two track railway is the same everywhere, if you have no loops or sidings or crossovers you can fit an off the shelf box with standard interfaces to signals - and it doesn't matter if those signals are standard or lightweight, they all look the same to the interlocking. Expand on that to standard modular 'off the shelf' components to control stuff such as a passing loop, a facing crossover or a full barrier level crossing, and you end up with a straightforward railway between the major stations and junctions, ie those areas where it would be impossible to use an off the shelf black box due to the complexity.
(BTW▸ I had a glance through the signalling part of the Wessex route business plan, and it seems (on an initial read) to be more detailed than the Western in its timescales, and includes a diagram of all the steady state panel responsibilities once relocated to Basingstoke.)
Paul
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SandTEngineer
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« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2013, 09:24:38 » |
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Recontrol is just that. An existing interlocking (Relay/CBI) is remotely controlled from a new site. However, for new schemes the interlocking would more likely be placed at the ROC▸ (Didcot in our case) as its easier to maintain and fault there and there are less interfaces to fail.
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Tim
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« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2013, 10:14:37 » |
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Recontrol is just that. An existing interlocking (Relay/CBI) is remotely controlled from a new site. However, for new schemes the interlocking would more likely be placed at the ROC▸ (Didcot in our case) as its easier to maintain and fault there and there are less interfaces to fail.
IIUI, the term "re-control" can even include retaining mechanical interlocking in a local box, but operating the "levers" (or what is left of them) remotely rather than from the floor above. I don't know if this has actually been done, but the idea of "re-control" is that it can allow consolidation of control (and staff cost savings) without having to wait for a route to be fully re-signalled. |
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inspector_blakey
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« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2013, 21:51:31 » |
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They'll need some exceedingly long wires to control the semaphores in Cornwall from Didcot. Those levers are going to be a heavy pull...
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Electric train
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« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2013, 22:04:19 » |
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They'll need some exceedingly long wires to control the semaphores in Cornwall from Didcot. Those levers are going to be a heavy pull...
Like all things S & T it will be done with smoke and mirrors  The driver to centralise signalling, electrical control, route control is man power cost. Other renewals and enhancements has the sustainable, reliable and reduced maintenance again to reduce costs, if the 1950's electrification equipment being renewed last as well it will certainly be sustainable |
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Starship just experienced what we call a rapid unscheduled disassembly, or a RUD, during ascent,”
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JayMac
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« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2013, 22:08:20 » |
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They'll need some exceedingly long wires to control the semaphores in Cornwall from Didcot. Those levers are going to be a heavy pull...
Down starter cable snapped at Truro t'other day. And that was only being pulled from the nearby box..... |
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"Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for the rest of the day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
- Sir Terry Pratchett.
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Trowres
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« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2013, 22:50:18 » |
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The driver to centralise signalling, electrical control, route control is man power cost.
When control of several power boxes is merged in one control centre, isn't the saving in signallers quite small? Are there technician savings then? |
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inspector_blakey
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« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2013, 23:40:22 » |
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Down starter cable snapped at Truro t'other day. And that was only being pulled from the nearby box.....
Referred to as section signals these days, for reasons that I don't know  Hope the signaller was OK, by all accounts it's quite a nasty shock to be pulling on lever when the wire breaks: apparently you can quite easily find yourself flying backwards into the wall if it's a heavy lever. |
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paul7575
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« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2013, 00:32:00 » |
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The driver to centralise signalling, electrical control, route control is man power cost.
When control of several power boxes is merged in one control centre, isn't the saving in signallers quite small? Are there technician savings then? The Western route business plan operations manpower table (page 67) shows very little change even up to CP11 - nearly 30 years hence! However The Wessex version of the route business plan has a table (page 52) suggesting signaller manpower is reduced, over about ten years, from about 250 to 150, so down by 40%. NR» 's total operations manpower reducing from 496 to 370 at the same time, say 25%. I've seen it pointed out that many signalling personnel will retire in normal course anyway, and they are still recruiting, which may explain the apparent lack of conflict with the trade unions. I suppose it is possible, in light of the significant differences between the two routes as shown above, that staff will be able to transfer around the country to balance the effects? Paul |
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vacmanfan
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« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2013, 09:45:09 » |
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Down starter cable snapped at Truro t'other day. And that was only being pulled from the nearby box.....
Referred to as section signals these days, for reasons that I don't know Hope the signaller was OK, by all accounts it's quite a nasty shock to be pulling on lever when the wire breaks: apparently you can quite easily find yourself flying backwards into the wall if it's a heavy lever. They're big lads in Truro box, I'm sure they were fine! |
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