"Off peak tickets are not valid on this train"

[whole diary]

[Brucey]

I've had this several times recently.

Leaving Paddington in the evening: "Off peak tickets are not valid on this train"

Leaving Waterloo: "Super off peak tickets and Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) cards are not valid on this train"

Leaving Havant: "Tickets endorsed via Barnham are not valid on this train"

All of which all a complete load of rubbish.

In the first example, yes, tickets from London Terminals to some destinations have this restriction, but many others do not.  For example, an Edinburgh to Reading off-peak return would have been valid.

Second example, same argument applies, but with an Edinburgh to Havant super off-peak return.  As for Oyster cards, they would be valid if holding a season ticket, in combination with a paper ticket or ITSO smartcard.

The final one, well, the ticket may not be valid leaving that station, but it would be valid on that train later in the journey, such as between Clapham Junction and Waterloo.

No-wonder passengers are getting confused about off-peak tickets and routeing when on-train staff are introducing their own blanket bans, which may not agree with the advice given elsewhere (e.g. at the ticket office or online).

[Southern Stag]

Leaving Havant: "Tickets endorsed via Barnham are not valid on this train"


The final one, well, the ticket may not be valid leaving that station, but it would be valid on that train later in the journey, such as between Clapham Junction and Waterloo.

Presuming that was heading from Havant up towards Guildford and Waterloo a Guildford-Shepherds Wells via Barnham would be valid.

[Super Guard]

No-wonder passengers are getting confused about off-peak tickets and routeing when on-train staff are introducing their own blanket bans, which may not agree with the advice given elsewhere (e.g. at the ticket office or online).

Perhaps next time you travel during the Peak at Paddington, take a look at the information screens that will specify:

"Off-Peak Tickets Not Valid"
"Super Off Peak Not Valid"
"Super Off-Peaks not valid, Off-Peaks valid beyond xyz..."

Generally on-train staff take the information from these screens.

[LiskeardRich]

No-wonder passengers are getting confused about off-peak tickets and routeing when on-train staff are introducing their own blanket bans, which may not agree with the advice given elsewhere (e.g. at the ticket office or online).

Perhaps next time you travel during the Peak at Paddington, take a look at the information screens that will specify:

"Off-Peak Tickets Not Valid"
"Super Off Peak Not Valid"
"Super Off-Peaks not valid, Off-Peaks valid beyond xyz..."

Generally on-train staff take the information from these screens.

But some off peak tickets are valid that dont go beyond the xyz stated, such as the above example of Edinburgh to Reading.

[grahame]

But some off peak tickets are valid that dont go beyond the xyz stated, such as the above example of Edinburgh to Reading.

And indeed the fares can be lower.

Super Offpeak Return, Grantham to Chippenham, 100 pounds
Peak return, Paddington to Chippenham, 152 pounds

If I'm travelling our from Paddington in the evening peak, and coming back into London in the morning a couple of days later, but don't know exactly which trains I'll be using, I think I'm allowed to use buy a Grantham ticket, aren't I?   Certainly looks valid on the 17:30 from Paddington and on the 07:05 from Chippenham ...

Let me guess, though ... the departure boards for the 17:30 will say "Super Off Peak Not Valid" and staff tell us "Generally on-train staff take the information from these screens.".  Ouch!

[JayMac]

There are far too many exceptions for the information to be justifiably posted on screens or announced on-board. It could quite possibly deny travel opportunities to people who have a valid Off-Peak ticket. Or put them in a position where they are facing incorrectly applied excess fares or even prosecution. FGW^▸ (First Great Western) need to find a different way of communicating the rules on Off Peak tickets on the flows they price and not sweep up Off Peak tickets, priced by other TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company), that are valid. Some better training for staff on what is and isn't valid wouldn't go amiss either.

I have been told by the Customer Service desk that my ticket isn't valid. I have been asked to pay an excess fare. I have been threatened with ejection from the train and a meeting with BTP^▸ (British Transport Police) at Reading. I've patiently explained that my Off Peak Day Return was valid at any time on the return leg. I've explained to a Train Manager what the restriction code was and explained that the fare was not set by FGW. I've had on-train staff adamant that all Off Peak tickets are not valid on fast services in the evening and refuse to check. With one even condescendingly saying "I've been doing this job for twenty years, I know what is and isn't valid."

[LiskeardRich]

Let me guess, though ... the departure boards for the 17:30 will say "Super Off Peak Not Valid" and staff tell us "Generally on-train staff take the information from these screens.".  Ouch!

Very very worrying staff tell us this, shouldnt they be going off their training knowledge, not relying on a screen thats been programmed by one person potentially incorrectly

[swrural]

On the website it said I had to ring an enquiry 0845 number (bad by the way) to ascertain whether our off peak day returns were valid on the trains we were planning to travel on.  A firm reply from the adviser comforted me, (even though I confess his very heavy accent made me think he was in New Delhi) but as I explained on another thread, we were able to make earlier connections than those advertised on the web site (although advertised and bookable via the TD site by specifying 'fast walker').

In fact our ticket was only checked on the 1550 XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) Totnes to Exeter.  I know it is not in the peak (?) but the fact is that there was nothing apart from that phone call to confirm it, nor the 1626 to Waterloo onto which piled.  If all pax are making such phone calls, the call centre costs must be huge.  Don't forget we only bought tickets for ^6.25 each. 

[Brucey]

swrural, it is possible to get the National Rail Enquiries website to show you the restriction for the ticket you are purchasing.

In the blue box, below the train times but just above the dropdown for "Ticket provider".  Click the words "Off-Peak Day Return".  This takes you to another screen.  Scroll down to the section titled "Restrictions" and then click "view the specific 'Validity Code' applicable to the journey plan that you have selected."

This finally links you to this page which shows the time restriction for the selected ticket (in this case, I've linked to Axminster to Totnes Off Peak Day Return).

How you are supposed to find this without knowing it is there is anyone's guess.

[JayMac]

And of course, www.brfares.com will give you the restriction text on entering the origin and destination and selecting the ticket type.

[Super Guard]

Let me guess, though ... the departure boards for the 17:30 will say "Super Off Peak Not Valid" and staff tell us "Generally on-train staff take the information from these screens.".  Ouch!

Very very worrying staff tell us this, shouldnt they be going off their training knowledge, not relying on a screen thats been programmed by one person potentially incorrectly

I don't know how in-depth revenue protection training goes, but as TM^‡(resolve)'s, there is only so much they can teach us on the revenue side of things.

Perhaps the screens should say: "Tickets from London Terminals: No Super Off-peak" etc etc..

If someone shows me a ticket such as the other examples given and believes it to be valid, then i'll always check the restriction code.

However, the vast majority of people travelling are affected by these restrictions out of London & Reading.

The point I was making was that it isn't necessarily on-train staff making up their own blanket bans, if the info is being displayed elsewhere too.

For FGW^▸ (First Great Western), this will shortly be a moot point, as we are in the process of being re-briefed regarding on-train announcements, and one of the announcements the company no longer want us to make are ticket restrictions .

[JayMac]

Good to hear that you may no longer be making what can possibly be confusing announcements on-board.

As for the screens, what about "Super Off Peak and Off Peak tickets MAY not be valid on this service. If in doubt please enquire about the validity of your ticket."

Now obviously that would have to go hand in hand with having knowledgeable staff to ask. Chances are if the ticket has an origin or destination that is outside Greater London up the East Coast or Midland main lines or it is a Off Peak Day and the origin/destination is in Hertfordshire, Cambridgeshire, Lincolnshire, Essex or Kent, then it will be valid for use through Paddington to the Thames Valley in the evening peak. Whilst not necessary to train staff to know of every possible station to/from which the Peak restrictions at Paddington do not apply, it would help them if they had a rough geographical sense (perhaps provide maps). Ultimately if they are unsure and are unable to check then the benefit of the doubt should be given to the passenger.

[bobm]

I don't know the intricacies of how Avantix^▸ (Ticket Issuing System used on board trains) works but do staff have to identify the journey they are making when working the service?  If so perhaps there is some way it can flag up quickly which tickets are vald and which are not on that particular service.

[swrural]

Wow, blimey and wow again!  Next time Brucey and Superguard, and BNM, I'll just have your mobile numbers please, so I can check it out with you all, while on the platform or, in the case I mentioned, while we were haring it over the footbridge at St Davids with 2 minutes left!

Seriously, every posting I read on here about reduced fares and conditions makes me gulp and quake. 

Mind you, Grahame's posting about National Express obstacles was most impressive too!

Actually, thinking back, I think I also rang my call centre friend about whether I could break our journey, about which he was very helpful as well.

It has been like an assault course, this ticket lark, but the advice here is most helpful, thank you. 

[Super Guard]

I don't know the intricacies of how Avantix^▸ (Ticket Issuing System used on board trains) works but do staff have to identify the journey they are making when working the service?  If so perhaps there is some way it can flag up quickly which tickets are vald and which are not on that particular service.

No.   

We do put the head-code in, but this doesn't stop us from selling a ticket that would be totally invalid for the service.

If I put a journey into Avantix, for example PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains)-RDG^‡(resolve), and I select an Off-Peak Day Single (CDS^▸ (Off Peak Day Single [ticket type] (formerly 'Cheap Day'))), it will show me the restriction info, with a list of trains it is NOT valid for and its destination, e.g. 1800 - Bristol, 1803 - Penzance, etc, but if i'm working the 1806 to Frome, I will not see my train listed there and I then know it's valid.

It's not a quick process, but the information is available.