Andrew Haines - First Group / First Great Western (merged topics)

[whole diary]

[Tim]

As far as I am concerned Andrew Haines is a genuinely nice person, he did good things for First..

and good things for the CAA^» (Civil Aviation Authority - about) too.  It was him afterall who reopened the airspace!

[Henry]

 Andrew Haines was in a no win situation, in my opinion.

 Dealing with the likes of Michael O'Leary and Willie Walsh, not that they would ever put profit before safety.
 However if an incident had occured, no doubt Mr. Haines would have had been the 'scapegoat'

[Chris from Nailsea]

From the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

RAF^▸ (Royal Air Force) Typhoon training halted as ash found in engines

Training flights on RAF Typhoons in Lincolnshire have been suspended after ash deposits were found in the engines of four aircraft.
The fleet is being checked at its base in Coningsby, Lincolnshire.
An RAF spokesman said the Typhoons were "very high performance jets" so staff were "just being extra cautious".
According to the BBC's Richard Scott, the Civil Aviation Authority has pointed out that military planes fly much faster and suck in far more air than their civilian counterparts.
It says the work done with manufacturers to clear the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) for flying again did not factor in military jets, which are "a whole different world".
The CAA^» (Civil Aviation Authority - about) also says conclusions should not be drawn from the RAF's statement about the air-worthiness of civilian aircraft.
It adds that the all-clear for civilian aircraft to return to the skies still stands and there have been no reports of any ash damage.
Almost all flights across Europe are expected to go ahead on Thursday.

[John R]

As someone caught at the sharp end of this, I would have much rather endured what we did for 5 days than be put at risk (probably without even being told about the risk) if the aviation industry had kept on flying.

[Tim]

As someone caught at the sharp end of this, I would have much rather endured what we did for 5 days than be put at risk (probably without even being told about the risk) if the aviation industry had kept on flying.

I quite agree.  A balance has to be struck somewhere and the balance that was struck wasn't a million miles from where it should have been IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion)

[moonrakerz]

From the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

RAF^▸ (Royal Air Force) Typhoon training halted as ash found in engines

Training flights on RAF Typhoons in Lincolnshire have been suspended after ash deposits were found in the engines of four aircraft.

According to the BBC's Richard Scott, the Civil Aviation Authority has pointed out that military planes fly much faster and suck in far more air than their civilian counterparts.

Ummm !

The CIVIL Aviation Authority now appears to be an "expert" on military aero engines OR is it Richard Scott ? Who ?
We all know the definition of an "expert".

Most civil engines are totally different to military types. Civil engines tend to be high-bypass ratio engines, this means that much of the air (and ash) doesn't actually go through the really hot bit of the engine.
So comparing military high performance jets with civil airliners is really a bit of a joke !!

The bypass ratio of the engines in a Typhoon is 0.4:1. Concorde's were 0.1:1.
Civil high-bypass engines have ratios starting at about 6:1.
The latest RR Trent engine in the Boeing "Dreamliner" has a bypass ratio of 11:1, or to put it another way, over 90% of the air that goes in the front of the engine doesn't go through the "hot" bit where the ash causes problems.

An extra benefit of high-bypass engines is that they are much quieter too.  Main reason being that the exhaust from one of these engines is travelling a lot slower - which is why they aren't used in military aircraft, they can't be used to make an aircraft go very fast.

[devon_metro]

I'm just waiting for "Katla" to go. On the 3 occasions that "E..." has erupted, this one has gone up. Oh - and its much, much bigger 

Interestingly, the eruption explosivity was fairly low (the Volcano first erupted on 20th March), however when the eruption changed phases on the 14th April it was the combination of glacial ice and magma that caused the 10km high ash cloud. So blame ice

[inspector_blakey]

Most civil engines are totally different to military types. Civil engines tend to be high-bypass ratio engines, this means that much of the air (and ash) doesn't actually go through the really hot bit of the engine.
So comparing military high performance jets with civil airliners is really a bit of a joke !!

Erm, isn't that the point? The way I read the article, the CAA^» (Civil Aviation Authority - about) is saying that you should not compare military and civil jets in this context, and that the ash deposits in military aircraft are therefore not indicative of a risk to civil airliners...

[Chris from Nailsea]

So blame ice

Ice is being blamed for quite a few things ... from the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Falling ice damages roof of Bristol house

A lump of ice has left a football-sized hole in the roof of a Bristol house after it fell from the sky.
The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA^» (Civil Aviation Authority - about)) said it was likely the ice came from water leaking from an aircraft.
It is not the first time ice falling from the sky has damaged property in Bristol.
The roof and guttering of a house four miles away in Downend were damaged in July last year. And the same month a lump of falling ice fell just feet from a man sitting in Stoke Park, near the M32. Similar incidents have happened in Stoke Bishop and Staple Hill.
A spokesman for the CAA said: "We get 20 to 30 of these incidents reported to us a year in the whole of the UK^▸ (United Kingdom). It's quite rare when you consider there are 3 million movements in UK airspace a year."
He said water leaking from an aircraft turns to ice at high altitudes which falls off as the plane descends into warmer air.
"If the person it happens to has an accurate time of when it happened we will check the air traffic control radar to see what aircraft were in the area, otherwise it's a wild goose chase," the spokesman said.
"There will probably be a handful of aircraft in an area at any time, but we can write to the operators asking them to check their aircraft."
Even if the aircraft is found, any damage caused by the ice will need to be paid for by the home owner's household insurance.

[moonrakerz]

Most civil engines are totally different to military types. Civil engines tend to be high-bypass ratio engines, this means that much of the air (and ash) doesn't actually go through the really hot bit of the engine.
So comparing military high performance jets with civil airliners is really a bit of a joke !!

Erm, isn't that the point? The way I read the article, the CAA^» (Civil Aviation Authority - about) is saying that you should not compare military and civil jets in this context, and that the ash deposits in military aircraft are therefore not indicative of a risk to civil airliners...

Yes - but that was not the way it was reported on TV, I should have made that point clearer.

[JayMac]

Falling ice damages roof of Bristol house

....."If the person it happens to has an accurate time of when it happened we will check the air traffic control radar to see what aircraft were in the area, otherwise it's a wild goose chase," the spokesman said......

I guess wild geese don't show up on radar then? 

[Chris from Nailsea]

From the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

RAF^▸ (Royal Air Force) Typhoon jets back in skies after ash concerns

Typhoon jet flights from an RAF base in Lincolnshire have resumed after training flights were suspended.
The fleet was grounded after volcanic ash deposits were found in the engines of four aircraft.
The Ministry of Defence said that all 11 planes were checked and no problems were reported.
The first Typhoon to take to the air, from the home base at RAF Coningsby since the grounding was the display aircraft, at 0800 BST on Friday.

[Chris from Nailsea]

From the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Volcano ash flight ban 'might have ended sooner'

The suspension of UK^▸ (United Kingdom) flights after the volcanic eruption in Iceland might have ended sooner, the BBC has been told.
Flights resumed when manufacturers gave assurances six days after the eruption, which disrupted the plans of hundreds of thousands of people last month.
If airline engine manufacturers had specified a safe level of ash earlier, the Civil Aviation Authority says it could have reopened the skies earlier.
All aircraft engine makers contacted by the BBC declined to comment.
Ash from Iceland's Eyjafjallajokull volcano triggered a shutdown of European airspace, paralysing many airports and stranding hundreds of thousands of tourists and business travellers.
The flight ban was imposed because ash can turn to molten glass in the high temperatures of an aircraft's turbine and cripple the engine.
CAA^» (Civil Aviation Authority - about) chief executive Andrew Haines told Radio 4's The Report: "The critical path for this decision was the time it took for the manufacturers to satisfy themselves on the safe level of contamination. How long does it take for a manufacturer who has declined to determine something for many years to actually say, 'Given the evidence we've now got, we're happy to nail our colours to the mast and say that these are safe levels of contamination that don't present a hazard.'"
He said: "I suspect that manufacturers knew much of this, that they knew there was an acceptable level of safety but what hadn't happened is that they were prepared to underwrite that and validate it."
Mr Haines continued: "I suspect that a lot of these things come down to a combination of commercial and safety pressures and actually there are levels of contamination which might impact on the life of the engine without impacting on its safety. But that's only a speculation on my part.... I'm just grateful that they came to the table and worked very hard to get it resolved. If we'd had the assurances from manufacturers that we have now at the start of this crisis, the response would have been different."
Ongoing discussions about the safe level of volcanic ash to fly in had already been taking place between air regulators and the air industry, according to Richard Deakin, chief executive of the National Air Traffic Control Services (NATS). "There had been a meeting of the volcanic ash advisory group with aero engine manufacturers in March of this year, so literally a few weeks before events unfolded," he said.
The question of what might be a safe level has been widely discussed across the industry for many years.
In 1982 a BA^» (British Airways - about) jumbo jet flew right into a plume of ash from an Indonesian volcano and all four engines stalled, although they were eventually restarted.
The normal procedure when planes encounter ash is to fly round it, meaning that manufacturers have not had to specify "safe" levels. But the size and location of the ash cloud produced by Eyjafjallajokull, meant it was impossible to fly round it.
The government has also been criticised for its lack of leadership in the crisis.
Tim Jeans, managing director of Monarch Airlines, told The Report: "The government was not in control and I hope it will never pretend otherwise. There was no leadership demonstrated, nor has there been other than they understood there was a potential political problem brewing."
A Department for Transport spokesperson responded: "The government assumed clear and decisive control over events from the early stages of the ash crisis - it is wrong to suggest otherwise. The decision to restrict airspace was made in line with long-standing international guidelines and information from aircraft manufacturers that any volcanic ash could pose a danger to aircraft. The whole of Europe was in the same position, acting according to the same aviation safety rules."
The Report will be broadcast on BBC Radio 4, on Monday 3 May at 2030 BST. You can listen again via the BBC iPlayer or download the podcast.

[Chris from Nailsea]

From the Guardian:

Airline watchdog says industry must take share of blame for ash crisis

CAA^» (Civil Aviation Authority - about) chief executive Andrew Haines says commercial pressures and over-cautious international rules led to shutdown of UK^▸ (United Kingdom) airspace

If it is any consolation to Andrew Haines at least he is used to being blamed for everything. The chief executive of the Civil Aviation Authority was shoved back in the spotlight recently as "The Man Who Shut the Skies" or, more prosaically, as the head of Britain's air watchdog who presided over the closure of UK airspace for six days last month on safety grounds following the eruption of the Eyjafjallaj^kull volcano in Iceland.

Haines has been here before: he was the boss of First Great Western, the London-to-Wales rail franchise, when it was re-christened Worst Great Western throughout 2007 and 2008. Back then he could at least rely on the tacit support of the government, which declined to strip the contract from FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s owner, FirstGroup, despite a passenger revolt caused by overcrowding and repeated service cancellations.

This time around, no one appeared to lend moral support as hundreds of thousands of stranded passengers waited for the CAA to rewrite years-old safety guidelines in an unprecedented 96-hour rush of tests and consultations.

Willie Walsh, the British Airways chief executive, said the prolonged ban was "scandalous", while Lord Adonis, then transport secretary, said safety regulators had been "too cautious". Under the new guidelines for flying through ash clouds, large areas of Europe that were no-go zones for nearly a week suddenly became safe for commercial aircraft. Having lost an estimated ^2.1bn, the aviation industry is screaming accusations of incompetence and demanding compensation.

Haines, who joined the CAA last year, admits the FGW experience helped when he picked up the Evening Standard the day after the ban was lifted ^ 21 April ^ and read the claim that he had personally shut down Britain's airports for nearly a week. "I think second time around is never quite as bad," he says. "But when you have had two or three hours' sleep per night for six days and it's your birthday, and you have bust a gut to do the right thing ... "

Former colleagues of the 46-year-old Welshman testify to his calmness under pressure and pragmatism. He immediately disowned a pledge from his FGW predecessor to turn the franchise from the worst into the best-performing rail service in Britain because "business transformation does not happen overnight". Two years on, FGW now beats the national average for train punctuality.
A former FirstGroup colleague describes Haines as a "relaxed and informal" executive who threw himself into rescuing FGW. "He worked incredibly long days to turn it around. He is level-headed and calm, so he always makes decisions based on evidence. We never saw him lose it," said the ex-colleague.

Haines's response to the latest furore is one of mild incredulity. Sitting in his office at the CAA's central London headquarters, he says that the industry he regulates should take more responsibility for what happened. "To blame the regulator is a fantastic piece of buck-passing." And as for Walsh, a fellow straight-talker: "He said it was his personal belief [that airspace should not have been shut]. You cannot establish safety rules on people's personal beliefs." However, Adonis's comments were more supportive than they first appeared, adds Haines. "He was saying that international regulations were over-cautious and I agree."

At this point Haines produces the piece of yellow paper that stranded thousands of Britons in Mumbai and other airports around the globe. It is the safety guideline for flying through volcanic ash, as set down by the International Civil Aviation Organisation, a branch of the United Nations that sets global aviation standards. The smoke plume from the volcano contained a mixture of glass and rock that, if sucked into engines, had the potential to melt inside their turbines, stall passenger jets and plunge them into the ground. So when an ash cloud drifts across northern Europe, what should airlines do? The CAA and its European co-regulators turned to the ICAO guidelines, which stated, in capital letters just to emphasise things: "AVOID AVOID AVOID." Those three words are the reason why Europe was shut for six days ^ if there is the slightest presence of ash in the skies, airspace must be shut.

"That guidance had been in place for a number of years and we had to rapidly come up with a safe level of ash contamination," he says. The new guidelines, which permit flying in all but the most contaminated air corridors, were drawn up after aircraft manufacturers and engine maker Rolls-Royce were persuaded to conduct a series of tests, because it was their original guidance that created the blanket "AVOID" rule.

Haines says: "In truth there were commercial issues wrapped up with safety issues. We know that at extreme levels, ash contamination has been a serious safety issue. We know that the levels of contamination we faced were a long way from those levels of contamination. I can only speculate why airlines and manufacturers were unable to find the right levels." Some observers believe there was concern over liabilities for engine and aircraft damage, a theory underlined by industry papers that showed airlines were reluctant to contribute to discussions about setting new guidelines for flying through ash clouds as recently as two years ago.
Despite Haines's clear inference that the airspace closures were largely a crisis of the aviation industry's own making, he singles out one industry player for praise. "Rolls-Royce were fantastic. When they saw the issue they came to the fore. Without them we would not have got much of a resolution."

There is some sympathy for airlines that face multimillion-pound accommodation and food costs under the EU261 guideline that orders carriers to look after customers whose flights are delayed or cancelled. (As well as presiding over safety, and setting landing fees at London's main airports, the CAA oversees the implementation of the guideline.) The EU^» (European Union - about) framework did not anticipate a geological phenomenon and has saddled the industry with a hefty bill. Even Ryanair, always keen to duck a cost when it can, has grudgingly acknowledged that it will have to pay up.

The EU is reviewing the rule and Haines is sympathetic to industry concerns because it forces an airline, which might have been paid ^50 for a return fare, to pay hundreds of pounds in hotel costs. "It is so clearly out of kilter when you compare the cost to the operator with the benefit to the consumer. That makes it very difficult to enforce."

Haines adds that unifying European air traffic control is "not a panacea" because the new ash guidelines were drawn up by the CAA, not a pan-European regulator. Indeed, if anything rankles with Haines it is that the CAA has not been given enough credit for pushing through a new safety regime in a number of days. He welcomes calls for an inquiry, but with the view to bolstering the new safety set-up because the ash crisis is far from over. Within days of the interview the volcano spits a huge cloud into the middle of the Atlantic again causing hundreds of cancellations.

Asked how he coped with the responsibility of getting thousands of Britons back to their homes, he says: "It genuinely didn't feel like stress. It felt like there was a problem here and there was no easy solution to it, but I had the conviction that we were trying to do the right thing. I didn't break down in tears or tear my hair out, or throw anything at people." Perhaps the stress of FGW was worth it after all, but buck-passers beware..

The CV

Age 46
Education Cyfarthfa high school, Merthyr Tydfil; King's College London; Kingston University.

Career

1985 British Rail graduate manager. 1994 Joined Railtrack as an account manager in London and the south-east. 1997 Joined South West Trains as general manager, becoming operations director in 1999 and then managing director in 2000.

July 2005 Joined FirstGroup as managing director, UK rail division.

2009 Joined Civil Aviation Authority as chief executive.

Interests Architecture, film, literature and gardening.

Family Married to Caroline with two children, Alexandra and William.

[devon_metro]

Utterly outrageous. Imagine the hysteria if a plane fell from the skys. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Wouldn't it be unfortunate for the airlines if "Katla" was to erupt!!!!!