Your seat is no longer your seat.

[whole diary]

[trainer]

I turned up at my local restaurant on the off chance that they had a table and was shown an unreserved one near a window.  Unfortunately part way through my meal I was asked to move as this specific table had been reserved after I had arrived and the restaurant policy was that reservations by phone took priority over diners simply turning up at the door even if those customers were already eating.  Everything had to be moved with a great deal of fuss, but just as I settled to recommence eating, it happened again.  Of course, I shall not be returning.

The above anecdote is entirely fictitious, but Crosscountry Trains appear to have introduced a policy in which the above scenario is all too real (except it's travel not food).  I am sure that anyone affected will find that there is no similar uncertainty with their cars, the coach or indeed, flying if the distance is great.

I find this particular company becoming the least easy to use on a casual basis.  I know they have been lumbered with some of the worst and smallest long distance trains built, but surely this kind of policy is likely to leave an unpleasant memory for anyone who becomes victim to it and word-of-mouth will do much damage.  I've read the blurb on the website and the theory looks good, but I'm not sure how easy it is to use in practice

If anyone had positive or negative experiences with the system in reality, I'd be interested to hear about them.

[aleph_0]

I guess you're talking about the text message reservation system. Such seats have got a weasel-worded "This seat may be reserved" on the electronic display. There are only a few such seats on each train.

The system seems fine. If you're worried about having to move, I guess you should treat it as any other reserved seat. If you're only traveling only a few stops, you might choose to sit in it over a seat marked 'reserved', as there is less chance of it being occupied (well, maybe, would be interesting to know the no-show rate on reserved seats, vs. text message seat occupation).

To extend your analogy, the restaurant has a table labeled "Maybe Reserved", and it is explained that someone might reserve the table by text message for use in 20 minutes times, you would be welcome to use it and have a cup of tea, but if you wanted to stay all night, he would recommend you reserved it by text message yourself, or use a properly unreserved table instead.

[Southern Stag]

The situation you describe aleph_0 is how it the system worked when first introduced, but the system now is a shambles. All seats now either show reserved or not reserved but may be reserved later. Even if a seat has already been reserved for months in advance the system won't say reserved from x, just may be reserved later. I don't know if 10 minute reservations are still only available on a few seats but even if they are it's now impossible to tell which seats they are. You're only hope now if you don't have a reservation is Coach B if you are lucky enough to have a 221 or otherwise one of the few unreserved seats spread through the train.

[aleph_0]

Oh, wow, that is a bit rubbish. Sorry about the confusion. Given the length of XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) routes, I agree it's important that seats say "Reserved from X". My last few XC journeys have been at quiet times, so I hadn't noticed the changes.

[thetrout]

Even then some passengers choose to ignore clearly reserved seats even with a paper label flag.

I may have posted this before so apologies if old ground. On an FGW^▸ (First Great Western) service not too long ago. It was full and standing and I had a reserved seat (very rare for me!). During the journey nature called and I tottled off towards the toilet. A middle aged woman then decided to occupy my seat which was very quickly noticed when I returned from the Karzi.

I politely said that she had sat in my seat and was greates with an almost unbelievable response of "you left the seat so therefore you've lost it" ... "Well with all due respect and actually the respect of our fellow passengers, I thought it more appropriate to go to the toilet at the end of the carriage rather than the seat I was already sat in!" ... "Well does the seat have your name on it? Exactly!!" ... </smug trout = on> "Well actually love, if you look on that label above the seat, you'll see it has reserved written on it along with my Surname... So, yes, that seat does have my name on it!"

The woman's face was a picture!

[Timmer]

Even if the seat reservation label didn't have your name on it you could show your reservation ticket, not that you should have to.

[trainer]

I absolutely agree that it is wrong to sit in a reserved seat and not move if the rightful 'owner' turns up.  I think it's the lack of warning that any reservable seat on an XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) train might become someone's means that informed choice (a concept much beloved of many professions these days) as to whether to travel by such a train is asking for unhappy passengers.  It's embarrassing all round, making a perfectly legitimate decisions to sit down suddenly a publicly seen cause of conflict.

I have read the Terms and Conditions and they do say only a limited number of seats are reservable at short notice.  I note Southern Stag's helpful comments and I couldn't see any available seats in the carriage I used not long ago without a caveat of some sort about potential impending use.

The last time I travelled on XC trains I found an unreservable seat, but previously have sat tensely at each station wondering whether I might be asked to move.  I admit, that normally if I was travelling a long distance, I would reserve, but then I worry I will get the backward facing 'pillar' seat. 

tt's comments show that the paper reservation can have some advantages for the pax, but as Timmer points out, if you haven't booked it, it's not yours regardless of name.  Like you aleph_0 I tend to travel off peak, but on a long distance train, peaks come and go during the journey.  And thanks for indulging me with my restaurant analogy  .

[aleph_0]

tt's comments show that the paper reservation can have some advantages for the pax,

I think it's a little bit more subtle. Paper reservations are better than the current implementation of electronic reservations, but there's no reason that should be the case. The main problem is the need to determine quickly if a seat is reserved. The sea of paper tickets is effective in this aim. My memory is a little rusty, but I think virgin West Coast have static one-word descriptions to get around this.

If designing new, I'd suggest each display has an LED adjacent to it, coloured (e.g.) Green (or maybe unlit) if the seat is Unreserved, Yellow if it is reserved later in the journey, and Red if it's reserved from this, or a previous, stop. In doing so, we've replicated, and improved on, the main functionality of paper tickets. The displays should be of sufficient size to display information without scrolling.

Of course, I've entered fantasy land. However, under the constraints of the current displays, it's clear a lot more thought could be put in to it. If you have scrolling text, every letter counts. I'd suggest carefully thinking about the exact phrasing, abbreviation station names as appropriate (reservations until Bristol Parkway and/or Bristol TM^‡(resolve) might be better displayed as just Bristol, for example). And the apparent switch to just displaying "Reserved Later" is demonstrably silly.

[Southern Stag]

The last system XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) had was probably the best, but it only lasted for a short while. Seats either showed available, reserved or available until x. That meant there was much less scrolling. The only problem was that there was no indication of where a seat was reserved from and too. One of the main drawbacks on the electronic reservations is that you don't know if the seat is reserved again later on in the journey, so if the seat says reserved from x to y but nobody turns up for it, you don't know whether you're safe to sit in it, or whether somebody else has reserved it further down the line. With paper labels you can tell that.

[Rhydgaled]

The last system XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) had was probably the best, but it only lasted for a short while. Seats either showed available, reserved or available until x. That meant there was much less scrolling. The only problem was that there was no indication of where a seat was reserved from and too. One of the main drawbacks on the electronic reservations is that you don't know if the seat is reserved again later on in the journey, so if the seat says reserved from x to y but nobody turns up for it, you don't know whether you're safe to sit in it, or whether somebody else has reserved it further down the line. With paper labels you can tell that.

Except, when I got a ride on the Pretendolino, as far as I noticed the paper labels just said the seat was reserved at some point in the journey. I had no idea between which stations or even whether it was reserved more than once, luckily for me since I was only going one stop and the carriage was almost empty it didn't matter.

[Red Squirrel]

I admit, that normally if I was travelling a long distance, I would reserve, but then I worry I will get the backward facing 'pillar' seat. 

When travelling to London with my family (2 + 2 kids) I always try to reserve a table (stop laughing at the back!) and pretty much always get 2 backward facing pillar seats. I suppose I should be grateful that they put the kids in the same carriage as us (although come to think of it... no, dismiss that thought!).

As I understand it, it's a condition of carriage that you have to use your reserved seat (these would be 'Advance' tickets, bought through FGW^▸ (First Great Western) via nationalrail.co.uk), so it's always a bit frustrating to have to sit in our rotten seats when there are tables free elsewhere on the train.

[Southern Stag]

It's in the terms and conditions but in practice it is rarely enforced. If you are worried you could always as the guard first before you move.

[ChrisB]

I travewlled yesterday. The electtronic displays did either say 'Reserved from x to y, or 'May be reserved from x to y', I guess because they may have been fully reserved after y. The information given allowed me to find a seat not reservable before I got to my destination (only 3 stops including mine, 50 minutes).

You can book specific seats on the XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) website during ticket purchase. You can even change the allocated seat that XC offers you.

I would strongly recommend this if travelling any distance. I believe yopu can at ticket offices also.

[BandHcommuter]

I have travelled between Bristol and Manchester several times recently on business, and I am reaching the conclusion that CrossCountry is not viable for walk-up travel.

My journeys have been at short notice (such that I cannot reserve ahead) and in my opinion relatively expensive (^158 anytime return). On each occasion I have been unable to find vacant seats which are completely unreserved; they either show "reserved" for part of the journey, or "may be reserved" for part or all of the journey. On those seats which "may be reserved" for part of the journey, it is not clear whether the remaining part of the journey is reserved or unreserved. I have found myself having to change seats once or twice en route to vacate seats for reservation holders, or at least worrying that I am going to be thrown out of my seat at each station.

Apparently I can do reservations by text 10 minutes or more before the departure from any station (no need to prove I have a ticket, anyone can do this if they wish). So in theory, if I get on the train at Manchester and find it full, presumably I can text and book a reservation from Stockport to Bristol, and then attempt to throw the occupant of the reserved seat out when the train reaches Stockport. I can see all sorts of arguments arising.

More to the point, I am annoyed that CrossCountry are quite happy to relieve me of ^158 for a walk-up ticket, and yet they do not provide a realistic prospect of finding an unreserved seat.

[ChrisB]

I think you can also reserve at ticket offices up till 10 minutes before departure - so just remember to do so when you buy your ticket?

I agree it's a pain though, but not so difficult once you get used to their way of doing things. I have never failed to obtain a reservation using the 10 minute booking when I think it'll be busy, only once has someone had to move.....