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Author Topic: On train wifi with different Train Operating Companies (TOCs)  (Read 66011 times)
ChrisB
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« Reply #30 on: September 18, 2014, 15:14:05 »

I'd be interested to see whether they impose a limit after paying for access, and whether it is crystal clear before paying that the restriction is imposed. I would be mightily pissed off if I paid for an hour & got restricted after 20 mins because I had hit a download limit I knew nowt about.

They can't do that, surely?....
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grahame
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« Reply #31 on: October 19, 2014, 22:24:54 »

From a user group newsletter received ...

Quote
Wi-fi

Hearing that over ^50 million is being spent on installing Wi-Fi in trains, if true, would it not be better spent buying fifty new coaches?

Discuss  Grin
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JayMac
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« Reply #32 on: October 19, 2014, 22:28:44 »

For rail replacement services?  Tongue

Amount being spent on FGW (First Great Western) is ^2 million. I'm sure two carriages would help, but nobody in their right mind would place an order for two carriages only.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2014, 22:34:13 by bignosemac » Logged

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TonyK
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« Reply #33 on: October 21, 2014, 19:18:26 »

If an investment of ^50 million keeps captains of industry at their virtual desks whilst travelling, the boost to our national economy will far outweigh the cost. Even if it simply exposes the yoof of today to adverts whilst updating their Facebook friends on their "tote stupid ride with parents to whatever", it will move a couple of coppers from one pocket to another.

For all these things, we have credit cards. To be able to keep in touch with FGW (First Great Western) Coffee Shop - priceless!
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Now, please!
thetrout
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« Reply #34 on: March 28, 2015, 20:51:27 »

It'll be interesting to watch the complaints roll in on social media. There are only 254 connections available on any one router, I think

Common misconception this. Let me try and explain it a little. Each host on a network gets it's own unique IP Address for that device. A little like how your house in a street has a door number. Much the same concept.

It depends on how the router is configured. Lets assume the router is using a 192.168.1.x / 255.255.255.0 Subnet Mask. This is commonly known as a Class C or /24 Subnet. This is standard configuration for nearly all domestic and small business networks. This allows for 254 hosts on the same network. Of which 1 host is the Default Gateway / The Router Itself. Depending on the configuration on the router side that would allow 253 client hosts on the same network.

However you can configure most routers to use Class B and Class A Subnets also.

It's rather technical but I will try and explain it in the best way I can.

| Subnet Class || Private IP Space Format || Number of Usable Hosts || Subnet /XX Format || Full Subnet Mask |
| Class C || 192.168.1.x| 254| /24| 255.255.255.0
| Class B || 172.16.x.x| 65,534| /16| 255.255.0.0
| Class A || 10.x.x.x | 16,777,214| /8| 255.0.0.0

Each network subnet has 2 Reserved IP Addresses for Broadcast and Subnet ID. These I will call reserved IP Addresses as they cannot be used for hosts on the network. These IP Addresses are always the FIRST and LAST IP Addresses in the subnet network.

So if you look at a Class C Subnet which is used on the majority of BTHomeHubs, Virgin SuperHubs etc. The "192.168.1." part ALWAYS remains the same. The part after the last . can be any number from 1 - 254 inclusive. As 192.168.1.0 and 192.168.1.255 are our reserved IP Addresses these cannot be used. So you select IP 192.168.1.1 for your router. A host could have any IP from 192.168.1.2 - 192.168.1.254

NO HOST can share the same IP Address

A Class B subnet the "172.16." parts remain the same. So the part after the second . can both be selected at random with the exception of IP address 172.16.0.0 and 172.16.255.255 as these are the reserved addresses. So lets put our router on 172.16.0.1 This leaves us with another 65,533 addresses to choose from. So we could have 172.16.43.125 and 172.16.150.234 allocated to 2 seperate hosts.

As with Class C Subnets. A host cannot share the same IP address as another host.

Finally Class A Subnets. These are "10.x.x.x" so the first part "10." remains the same. That allows use to chose any number from 0 - 255 for the subsequent parts of the IP Address. So the reserved IP Address are 10.0.0.0 and 10.255.255.255 so these cannot be used. Our router goes to 10.0.0.1 that leaves the remaining 16,777,213 IP Addresses for our client hosts.



Lets assume you want to run 2 seperate networks on the same infrastructure. A host on say 192.168.150.x network wanted to communicate with a host on 192.168.125.x network. As these are 2 different subnets. You would need a device called a Router or Bridge. That would allow these 2 seperate networks to communicate with each other. This would allow you in theory to have a network of 506 hosts that could all communicate with each other. On 2 seperate 254 host networks. That is what your router in essence does. Allows your computer to find a path to the Public IP Address Space for the likes of Google etc.



So lets look at it in this way. I want to get from my computer in an Internet Cafe to Google.

LocationIP Address
My Laptop192.168.1.73
Cafe Router192.168.1.1
Google173.194.112.95

My Computer asks the Router if I can have a path to Google. The Router searches it's networks and finds another router that has the ability to go to Google. Eventually after Several Routers route me across the network. I arrive at my destination of 173.194.112.95





Explanation over. Hope you can have some understanding of it. Please do PM me for clarification and I will do my best to explain it rather than clutter this thread. Once I have made my explanations I will make a seperate post accordingly Smiley

Having now managed to get on an FGW (First Great Western) Service with WiFi for a time period long enough to do some investigating. I can confirm the subnet mask available on the FGW WiFi is a /24 255.255.255.0 Subnet for 254 IP Addresses. With 192.168.101.1 being the Router on the Wireless Access Point. It's reasonably safe to assume there are 253 IP Lease Addresses available via something called DHCP. This is a service that gives any device an IP Address should it request one to communicate with other devices on the Network and the Internet.



I am yet to establish if this subnet is for the whole train or just per carriage. I am in the Buffet and currently hold an IP Address of 192.168.101.118 So when the train stops at Taunton I will walk all the way down to Coach A and see if I get a different IP Address or different Subnet in Coach A.

A tracert command shows traffic passing through the a router with 10.225.200.0 as an IP Address. This is perfectly normal for Cell Modems to use an Internal /8 Subnet with mass NAT (Network Address Translation). NAT is a function that allows Private IP Address Space (192.168.1.x / 172.16.x.x / 10.x.x.x) to communicate with Internet IP Addresses (such as 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 for Google DNS (Domain name service))

What I have noticed is the DHCP Lease time Allocation is for 20 minutes. So if the device using the WiFi after 20 minutes does not request a renewal of it's IP Address. The IP Address returns to the allocation pool to be issued to someone else.

So for a maximum of 20 minutes after I get off this train. The IP Address will be reserved for me to reconnect. If I don't then it can be issued to someone else Smiley
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Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #35 on: March 28, 2015, 22:50:32 »

So when the train stops at Taunton I will walk all the way down to Coach A and see if I get a different IP Address or different Subnet in Coach A.

Thank you, thetrout, for your generous commitment to the cause of such research.  Shocked Roll Eyes Grin
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« Reply #36 on: March 29, 2015, 09:17:16 »

Did you ever reach coach A, or was the wifi non-existant? :-)
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #37 on: March 29, 2015, 09:33:54 »

Access to any sort of decent on train WiFi seems to be very patchy - FGW (First Great Western) Twitter feed now supplying those enquiring/complaining with a (non freephone!) helpdesk number to ring!

(...."have you tried getting off the train and getting back on again?")  Roll Eyes
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SandTEngineer
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« Reply #38 on: March 29, 2015, 09:46:50 »

I tested the FGW (First Great Western) Wifi last week and ran the Railcam train describer maps feed all the way from Plymouth to Westbury and the maps updated within 10 seconds of passing each signal (I am a signal engineer so I know these things).  I never lost the tracking once in the whole trip (2 hours in total) including transit of all of the tunnels enroute so I would say thats quite reliable and stable Grin
« Last Edit: March 29, 2015, 09:55:37 by SandTEngineer » Logged
TaplowGreen
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« Reply #39 on: March 29, 2015, 10:03:43 »

I tested the FGW (First Great Western) Wifi last week and ran the Railcam train describer maps feed all the way from Plymouth to Westbury and the maps updated within 10 seconds of passing each signal (I am a signal engineer so I know these things).  I never lost the tracking once in the whole trip (2 hours in total) including transit of all of the tunnels enroute so I would say thats quite reliable and stable Grin

Glad to hear it worked for you  Smiley
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ChrisB
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« Reply #40 on: March 29, 2015, 10:30:26 »

I wouldn't expect free service calls for the wifi. What I would expect is a number that was conpatible with your free minutes allowance on your mobile
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #41 on: March 29, 2015, 10:54:39 »

I wouldn't expect free service calls for the wifi. What I would expect is a number that was conpatible with your free minutes allowance on your mobile

I guess that would be a step in the right direction, but I think what I would expect would be that if an aspect of FGW (First Great Western)'s advertised service is not working, they would sort it out themselves rather than expecting me to pay to do it for them?

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ChrisB
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« Reply #42 on: March 29, 2015, 11:02:17 »

Sorry, if you were paying for it, definitely. Bit its a free offer.
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Ollie
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« Reply #43 on: March 29, 2015, 14:33:45 »

The helpdesk number begins with 03, so it's the same as calling a landline.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #44 on: March 29, 2015, 14:44:02 »

Oh, so it does come off your free minutes. Fine with me
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