Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 18:35 28 Mar 2024
- How do I renew my UK passport and what is the 10-year rule?
- Passengers pleaded with knifeman during attack
- Family anger at sentence on fatal crash driver, 19
- Easter travel warning as millions set to hit roads
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 02/06/24 - Summer Timetable starts
17/08/24 - Bus to Imber
27/09/25 - 200 years of passenger trains

On this day
28th Mar (1917)
Bideford, Westward Ho! and Appledore closed (link)

Train RunningCancelled
16:54 Cardiff Central to London Paddington
17:48 Reading to Gatwick Airport
17:54 Cardiff Central to London Paddington
17:57 London Paddington to Worcester Foregate Street
18:03 London Paddington to Penzance
18:08 London Paddington to Frome
Additional 18:25 Shalford to Reading
18:26 Newbury to Bedwyn
18:36 London Paddington to Plymouth
18:37 Westbury to Swindon
18:51 Filton Abbey Wood to Bristol Temple Meads
18:55 Bedwyn to Newbury
19:23 Reading to Gatwick Airport
19:24 Newbury to Bedwyn
19:33 London Paddington to Worcester Shrub Hill
19:55 Bedwyn to Newbury
20:13 Swindon to Westbury
20:16 Frome to Westbury
20:49 Newbury to Bedwyn
20:56 Worcester Foregate Street to London Paddington
21:16 Bedwyn to Newbury
Short Run
15:03 London Paddington to Penzance
15:23 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central
15:30 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour
16:19 Carmarthen to London Paddington
16:23 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central
16:35 London Paddington to Plymouth
16:50 Plymouth to London Paddington
17:03 London Paddington to Penzance
17:20 Reading to Gatwick Airport
17:30 London Paddington to Taunton
17:36 London Paddington to Plymouth
17:50 Gloucester to Salisbury
17:59 Gatwick Airport to Reading
18:18 Newbury to London Paddington
18:19 Reading to Gatwick Airport
18:54 Reading to Gatwick Airport
18:59 Gatwick Airport to Reading
19:06 London Paddington to Bedwyn
19:29 Gatwick Airport to Reading
20:42 Bedwyn to London Paddington
Delayed
13:59 Cardiff Central to Penzance
14:15 Penzance to London Paddington
16:03 London Paddington to Penzance
Additional 17:17 Exeter St Davids to Penzance
Additional 17:26 Castle Cary to Penzance
17:29 Gatwick Airport to Reading
An additional train service has been planned to operate as shown 18:25 Shalford to Reading
18:29 Gatwick Airport to Reading
19:04 London Paddington to Plymouth
19:59 Gatwick Airport to Reading
etc
PollsOpen and recent polls
Closed 2024-03-25 Easter Escape - to where?
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
March 28, 2024, 18:50:13 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[133] West Wiltshire Bus Changes April 2024
[132] would you like your own LIVE train station departure board?
[53] Return of the BRUTE?
[44] If not HS2 to Manchester, how will traffic be carried?
[41] Infrastructure problems in Thames Valley causing disruption el...
[32] Reversing Beeching - bring heritage and freight lines into the...
 
News: A forum for passengers ... with input from rail professionals welcomed too
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 3
  Print  
Author Topic: FGW Guards To Be Balloted By RMT For Action Over Managers Working Trains?  (Read 14701 times)
Lee
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7519


GBR - The Emperor's New Rail Network


View Profile WWW
« on: December 19, 2007, 10:49:23 »

Any truth in this rumour, currently doing the forum rounds?
Logged

Vous devez ĂȘtre impitoyable, parce que ces gens sont des salauds - https://looka.com/s/78722877
oooooo
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 288


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2007, 14:14:42 »

Well it definately hasnt happened but the rumor is doing the rounds. What is more definate is a 'rest day working' ban being introduced by ASLEF» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about) for drivers from 29th December. With drivers unable to work 'rest days' expect more cancellations due to 'lack of traincrew'.
Logged
gaf71
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 305


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2007, 17:58:25 »

Any truth in this rumour, currently doing the forum rounds?
There is a notice up in my depot relating to this. Not sure if it is an official RMT (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) document though. Think it is a proposal from an RMT member, asking the union to ballot its members.

Sorry, not sure if this helps! Huh
Logged
Tickets Please
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 104


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2007, 19:10:21 »

Yes it is true. Several RMT (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) Branches (Bristol and Plymouth) and others I beleive unaimously voted on motions to put before the RMT Committe asking for a ballot on strike action over the issue. This was agreed on Tuesday by the EC and ballot papers will be sent out shortly to Guard Grades asking if they support (a) strike action and (b) action short of strike action.

Its not a rumour, it is happening
Logged

Any comments made are mine and not that of my employer. My comments do not necessarily reflect the views of my employers and should be taken as my personal opinion.
Mookiemoo
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3117


View Profile Email
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2007, 22:39:25 »

Yes it is true. Several RMT (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) Branches (Bristol and Plymouth) and others I beleive unaimously voted on motions to put before the RMT Committe asking for a ballot on strike action over the issue. This was agreed on Tuesday by the EC and ballot papers will be sent out shortly to Guard Grades asking if they support (a) strike action and (b) action short of strike action.

Its not a rumour, it is happening

Question is, from a user of the trains....

Why are the managers working the trains?  Is it because the guards won't because they dont get overtime?

Sorry, I have no sympathy.

I work hours for my clients.

If they want me to work hours I choose not to because they are not in my standard contract, then I quote a rate I am happy to work for on the extra hours - usually more than my standard rate.

If the client doesnt want to pay, fine, if they can get somebody else to do it for less - good on them.

If there is another issue.. please enlighten us.

Normally it is because managers are covering shifts the guards WON (Weekly Operating Notice )'T do as a opposed to CAN'T

Remember - railworkers are not public sector anymore - they are subject to commercial realities the same as everyone else

(and i'm on the side of the drivers, the guards, the staff 99% of the time )
Logged

Ditched former sig - now I need to think of something amusing - brain hurts -I'll steal from the master himself - Einstein:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."

"Gravitation is not responsible for people falling in love"
gaf71
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 305


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2007, 10:16:44 »

Yes it is true. Several RMT (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) Branches (Bristol and Plymouth) and others I beleive unaimously voted on motions to put before the RMT Committe asking for a ballot on strike action over the issue. This was agreed on Tuesday by the EC and ballot papers will be sent out shortly to Guard Grades asking if they support (a) strike action and (b) action short of strike action.

Its not a rumour, it is happening

Question is, from a user of the trains....

Why are the managers working the trains?  Is it because the guards won't because they dont get overtime?

Sorry, I have no sympathy.

I work hours for my clients.

If they want me to work hours I choose not to because they are not in my standard contract, then I quote a rate I am happy to work for on the extra hours - usually more than my standard rate.

If the client doesnt want to pay, fine, if they can get somebody else to do it for less - good on them.

If there is another issue.. please enlighten us.

Normally it is because managers are covering shifts the guards WON (Weekly Operating Notice )'T do as a opposed to CAN'T

Remember - railworkers are not public sector anymore - they are subject to commercial realities the same as everyone else

(and i'm on the side of the drivers, the guards, the staff 99% of the time )
Sorry, but you are way off line here. The reason managers are working trains are because of crew shortages, must guards are working loads of overtime at the moment to cover this. If we were not, there would be a lot more cancellations. I have been refused annual leave days 3 times in the last 6 weeks because of crew shortages. If FGW (First Great Western) were at full staff capacity this would not happen.
Also i will be working overtime this evening( on my rest day ) for which we do get enhanced pay.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2007, 15:42:26 by gaf71 » Logged
Mookiemoo
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3117


View Profile Email
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2007, 14:01:10 »

Yes it is true. Several RMT (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) Branches (Bristol and Plymouth) and others I beleive unaimously voted on motions to put before the RMT Committe asking for a ballot on strike action over the issue. This was agreed on Tuesday by the EC and ballot papers will be sent out shortly to Guard Grades asking if they support (a) strike action and (b) action short of strike action.

Its not a rumour, it is happening

Question is, from a user of the trains....

Why are the managers working the trains?  Is it because the guards won't because they dont get overtime?

Sorry, I have no sympathy.

I work hours for my clients.

If they want me to work hours I choose not to because they are not in my standard contract, then I quote a rate I am happy to work for on the extra hours - usually more than my standard rate.

If the client doesnt want to pay, fine, if they can get somebody else to do it for less - good on them.

If there is another issue.. please enlighten us.

Normally it is because managers are covering shifts the guards WON (Weekly Operating Notice )'T do as a opposed to CAN'T

Remember - railworkers are not public sector anymore - they are subject to commercial realities the same as everyone else

(and i'm on the side of the drivers, the guards, the staff 99% of the time )
Sorry, but you are way of line here. The reason managers are working trains are because of crew shortages, must guards are working loads of overtime at the moment to cover this. If we were not, there would be a lot more cancellations. I have been refused annual leave days 3 times in the last 6 weeks because of crew shortages. If FGW (First Great Western) were at full staff capacity this would not happen.
Also i will be working overtime this evening( on my rest day ) for which we do get enhanced pay.

So..........if all the guards that exist are working to full capacity........what difference does it make whether FGW hire more guards or staff with managers (as long as managers trained).

Makes no difference to the existing staff
Logged

Ditched former sig - now I need to think of something amusing - brain hurts -I'll steal from the master himself - Einstein:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."

"Gravitation is not responsible for people falling in love"
gaf71
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 305


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2007, 15:41:00 »

Yes it is true. Several RMT (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) Branches (Bristol and Plymouth) and others I beleive unaimously voted on motions to put before the RMT Committe asking for a ballot on strike action over the issue. This was agreed on Tuesday by the EC and ballot papers will be sent out shortly to Guard Grades asking if they support (a) strike action and (b) action short of strike action.

Its not a rumour, it is happening

Question is, from a user of the trains....

Why are the managers working the trains?  Is it because the guards won't because they dont get overtime?

Sorry, I have no sympathy.

I work hours for my clients.

If they want me to work hours I choose not to because they are not in my standard contract, then I quote a rate I am happy to work for on the extra hours - usually more than my standard rate.

If the client doesnt want to pay, fine, if they can get somebody else to do it for less - good on them.

If there is another issue.. please enlighten us.

Normally it is because managers are covering shifts the guards WON (Weekly Operating Notice )'T do as a opposed to CAN'T

Remember - railworkers are not public sector anymore - they are subject to commercial realities the same as everyone else

(and i'm on the side of the drivers, the guards, the staff 99% of the time )
Sorry, but you are way of line here. The reason managers are working trains are because of crew shortages, must guards are working loads of overtime at the moment to cover this. If we were not, there would be a lot more cancellations. I have been refused annual leave days 3 times in the last 6 weeks because of crew shortages. If FGW (First Great Western) were at full staff capacity this would not happen.
Also i will be working overtime this evening( on my rest day ) for which we do get enhanced pay.

So..........if all the guards that exist are working to full capacity........what difference does it make whether FGW hire more guards or staff with managers (as long as managers trained).

Makes no difference to the existing staff
Thats the whole point, FGW need to employ more staff, which they are in the process of doing. It does make a difference to existing staff when they cant get leave that they are entitled to. If guards didn't work their rest days(i.e. overtime) you would have a lot more cancellations. As for the managers working trains thing, I think that this goes back to a previous agreement between FGW and RMT that managers would not work trains, which they are obviously in breach of. By the way, if the guards withdrew their overtime (as the drivers are doing soon) there wouldn't be enough competent managers to work all the trains anyway Wink
« Last Edit: December 20, 2007, 15:43:12 by gaf71 » Logged
Mookiemoo
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3117


View Profile Email
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2007, 15:53:14 »



Makes no difference to the existing staff
[/quote]
Thats the whole point, FGW (First Great Western) need to employ more staff, which they are in the process of doing. It does make a difference to existing staff when they cant get leave that they are entitled to.
[\quote]

I believe that under employment law if you have an annual entitlement to leave you have to be given it - however it does not have to always be when you want it.  When I used to be an employee I never wanted to work christmas - but I always had to because I have no children and priority at christmas was always to families.  I got my leave at times it was convenient to my employer. 

[\quote]
If guards didn't work their rest days(i.e. overtime) you would have a lot more cancellations. As for the managers working trains thing, I think that this goes back to a previous agreement between FGW and RMT (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) that managers would not work trains, which they are obviously in breach of. By the way, if the guards withdrew their overtime (as the drivers are doing soon) there wouldn't be enough competent managers to work all the trains anyway Wink
[/quote]

And you see thats where you lose any sympathy and why I dislike unions - why should managers not work trains if they are trained to and they choose to and the work is there?

Its a bit like when I worked at ESB (electricity supply board)  - I was told off for changing a lightbulb - I'd asked maintenance to change it two weeks before - still wasnt done.  So I did it myself.

The reason it was not done is because there was not enough maintenance people - but the union still went beserk that I did a job that should have been done by one of their members.

If managers were doing it instead of offering overtime I would have sympathy - but if my trains are cancelled because guards are on strike because of this, I wont have any sympathy.

As for refusing to do overtime - in the rest of the PRIVATE sector, most people who are salaried would love overtime!  So think yourselves lucky

Logged

Ditched former sig - now I need to think of something amusing - brain hurts -I'll steal from the master himself - Einstein:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."

"Gravitation is not responsible for people falling in love"
vacman
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2530


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2007, 16:01:29 »

By managers working trains is just a cheap fix, overtime bills are cheaper than paying additional staff and thus FGW (First Great Western) are taking the cheap option, in the meantime no one can get any leave. Why should a manager who's on stupid money do the same job as a guard who's on less money??
Logged
Mookiemoo
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3117


View Profile Email
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2007, 16:14:55 »

By managers working trains is just a cheap fix, overtime bills are cheaper than paying additional staff and thus FGW (First Great Western) are taking the cheap option, in the meantime no one can get any leave. Why should a manager who's on stupid money do the same job as a guard who's on less money??

Legally they have to give you your contracted leave - just not necessarily when you want it.  Thats life.

As for "Why should a manager who's on stupid money do the same job as a guard who's on less money??" that statement would make sense only if the other way around i.e.

"Why should a guard who's on less money do the same job as a manager who's on stupid money??".

If a manager chooses to do a job below his payscale/post, so long as its not removing work or overtime from the holders of the post that should be doing it, it is their choice.

And yes, if they choose to take the easy/cheap option and do it that way - that is FGW choice.

The rail companies are no longer public employers but private.

When public and ex public employees have to deal with the same crap as the rest of the private sector, then they will realise which side of the bread is buttered
Logged

Ditched former sig - now I need to think of something amusing - brain hurts -I'll steal from the master himself - Einstein:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."

"Gravitation is not responsible for people falling in love"
gaf71
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 305


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2007, 16:28:14 »

You are missing the point. Wether you like it or not, the railway is in the hands of the unions, and if we are balloted for strike action, and it is voted for, then it will happen.

As for the leave thing, you are right that we are contracted for a certain amount of days per year, but when they get turned down, due to lack of cover because of staff shortages, I suppose i could go sick, but then who would work your trains? A manager? That could lead to strike action........... Undecided
Logged
Mookiemoo
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3117


View Profile Email
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2007, 19:00:01 »

You are missing the point. Wether you like it or not, the railway is in the hands of the unions, and if we are balloted for strike action, and it is voted for, then it will happen.

As for the leave thing, you are right that we are contracted for a certain amount of days per year, but when they get turned down, due to lack of cover because of staff shortages, I suppose i could go sick, but then who would work your trains? A manager? That could lead to strike action........... Undecided

Legally they HAVE to give you your contracted leave - just no necessarily when you want it.

Getting rid of the unions was the best thing Thatcher did - shame we've still got some left.
Logged

Ditched former sig - now I need to think of something amusing - brain hurts -I'll steal from the master himself - Einstein:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."

"Gravitation is not responsible for people falling in love"
Tickets Please
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 104


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2007, 19:41:04 »

yawn
Logged

Any comments made are mine and not that of my employer. My comments do not necessarily reflect the views of my employers and should be taken as my personal opinion.
Mookiemoo
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3117


View Profile Email
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2007, 19:51:29 »

yawn

Yawn if you  like - just yawn in the real world
Logged

Ditched former sig - now I need to think of something amusing - brain hurts -I'll steal from the master himself - Einstein:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."

"Gravitation is not responsible for people falling in love"
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: [1] 2 3
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page