15.51 Paddington to Worcester Shrub Hill

[whole diary]

[IndustryInsider]

Yes, the peaks aren't really too much of a problem, it's the 'just before the peak' time from Oxford between 3-5pm, where there's only a 15:20, 16:49 and then 17:32.  If, for example, through trains from London to at least Worcester departed Oxford at 15:15, 16:15, 17:15, 18:15, 18:45, 19:15 and 20:15, then you could squeeze a shuttle service from Didcot/Oxford to Moreton in at 16:45 and 17:45 which could mop up all the passengers for the halts and remove the likes of Shipton from the fast trains helping to cut through journey times.  Capacity problem solved.

[ChrisB]

You won't need to - and it's unlikely there'd be a spare turbo in the peaks....

You've got....
^15:46 PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) - Hereford 5-car
^16:46 PAD - Worcester 5-car
^17:46 PAD - Hereford 10-car
and I suggest that the operator will insert (as now)
1622/1722 (ish)

and there will be a 1846 too

[IndustryInsider]

Isn't that pretty much what I've said?  And we haven't 'got' anything yet - except a demonstration timetable, which is exactly that.  If they come through from London then even better of course, but will there be spare IEPs^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) in the peak?  I'd have thought 8 or 12-car EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) to Oxford and a connecting train beyond would stand a better chance stock availability wise.

[IanL]

One issue is that the last non-peak train along the Cotswold line from Paddington (1551) is very much a peak time train from Oxford. So this train gets filled at Paddington by passengers avoiding peak times and added to by the peak at Oxford.

The reduction in capacity has already caused a spreading out of journeys, the 1520 ex OXF^» (Oxford - next trains) and the 1732 used to be quite quiet, but are now usually (and almost always on fridays) very cosy.

It only needs one cancellation and it all goes to pot like last wednesday (9th)  after the fatality near Ealing.

(Edited to correct day of week)

[ChrisB]

The 1732 halts train (if the booked Adelante) is never full off Oxford, anytime I've used it....assuming no delays. Any train during/immediately following a delay will be full, regardless

[IndustryInsider]

Agreed with the 17:32 usually having a little space on board, even on Fridays, assuming no other delays.

Regarding delays, that's where having a couple of shuttle services from Oxford may help on occasions as if there is a problem with the through trains off of London as they won't get caught up in it.  Take last Wednesday for example when, due to a fatality, the 14:21 ex-PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) was cancelled, and the 15:52 was about an hour late (and eventually turned into to the 'halts' train departing Oxford late at about 18:00).  A couple of shuttles and the passenger numbers that led to at least 30 taxis having to be used would have been largely solved.  The net result was no train from Oxford to Worcester for over five hours (and consequent cancellations back the other way).  In fact efforts were made to arrange a shuttle from Oxford to Moreton using a 180 that had arrived at 16:50 from Great Malvern, but despite crews and train in place (and plenty of passengers) control miles away in Swindon declined the request/plea from the Oxford staff - but that's another topic! 

[ChrisB]

There are no extra paths in the peak along the Cotswold Line....

[IndustryInsider]

There are no extra paths in the peak along the Cotswold Line....

Correct.  Though the odd tweak to the timetable here and there, and a loop at Hanborough, would release paths.

[ChrisB]

Sometimes one feels like they're at school, with some acting as schoolmasters.

Agreeing sounds preferable to being told (I know I am....) that one is correct.

[IndustryInsider]

Apologies if you misunderstood the tone of my reply, but I did 'agree' with you in my previous reply.  Sometimes I find black and white swingeing statements difficult to reply to though (especially when the context isn't necessarily clear) as the actual truth is often somewhere in the middle, and I will question you on topics where I do know more than you, such as the pathing on the Cotswold Line - by the same principles I very rarely get involved with posts on subjects such as ticketing as it is an area I know comparatively little about.

Whilst there are currently no extra paths in the peak along the Cotswold Line (the 'correct' in my reply), there's currently a 25 minute period when there are no trains on the single line between Wolvercote and Charlbury between 17:55 and 18:20, so here's a way of plugging that gap and creating an extra path without any extra infrastructure and still allowing a little resilience in the timetable:

• Timetable as now until the departure of the 17:32 from Oxford to Great Malvern which you replace with a 17:32 faster service, calling at Hanborough and Charlbury.  That clears the single line at Charlbury at 17:48.
• You then run the halts train departing Oxford at 17:52 as far as Moreton-In-Marsh, which, calling at all stations clears the single line at 18:14 and reaches Moreton at 18:38ish.
• The 18:17 to Hereford then departs as now entering the single line at 18:20 and running as now.

So, there's your grey area - whilst it's correct to say that there's no extra paths in the peak based on the current timetable, it's perfectly possible to create one if you restructure the timetable - which is exactly what will be happening in a couple of years.  The final timetable might not look anything like the example above of course, but it demonstrates that there is still scope for improvement.

[ChrisB]

I have no problem whatsoever with being questioned, or even informed that I am wrong (with an explanation of course), but telling anyone they are 'correct' belittles them. Please try & use 'agree', 'indeed, ....', or some such like)

There is an Oxford arrival from the south at 1751, blocking the down platform for some minutes...also serving DID^» (Didcot Parkway - next trains). Your suggestion won't work, and has been explored by the Cotswold Line P/Group (CLPG^» (Cotswold Line Promotion Group - about)). We have a timetable expert, likely to better than even you, and I think I can safely say there are no useful things that can currently be done until the timetable is re-written for IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.).

Oh, and it's the 1715 from DID, not the 1732 from Oxford, don't forget.

[Richard Fairhurst]

There is an Oxford arrival from the south at 1751, blocking the down platform

Which one? There are two (and three in extremis).

[IndustryInsider]

I have no problem whatsoever with being questioned, or even informed that I am wrong (with an explanation of course), but telling anyone they are 'correct' belittles them. Please try & use 'agree', 'indeed, ....', or some such like)

There is an Oxford arrival from the south at 1751, blocking the down platform for some minutes...also serving DID^» (Didcot Parkway - next trains). Your suggestion won't work, and has been explored by the Cotswold Line P/Group (CLPG^» (Cotswold Line Promotion Group - about)). We have a timetable expert, likely to better than even you, and I think I can safely say there are no useful things that can currently be done until the timetable is re-written for IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.).

Oh, and it's the 1715 from DID, not the 1732 from Oxford, don't forget.

I think you misunderstand.  My posts on this matter have been about what could be achieved post-IEP timetables.  There's no chance of any major alterations until then - I think the last paragraph of my previous post to this topic makes that perfectly clear.

I have no problem whatsoever with being questioned, or even informed that I am wrong (with an explanation of course), but telling anyone they are 'correct' belittles them. Please try & use 'agree', 'indeed, ....', or some such like)

I will try not to belittle you, Chris.  Tempting though it often is.

[Worcester_Passenger]

The 1732 halts train (if the booked Adelante) is never full off Oxford, anytime I've used it....assuming no delays. Any train during/immediately following a delay will be full, regardless

Might be a bit cosier today - it's on JourneyCheck as being 2 coaches instead of 5.

[IndustryInsider]

Whilst there are currently no extra paths in the peak along the Cotswold Line (the 'correct' in my reply), there's currently a 25 minute period when there are no trains on the single line between Wolvercote and Charlbury between 17:55 and 18:20, so here's a way of plugging that gap and creating an extra path without any extra infrastructure and still allowing a little resilience in the timetable:

• Timetable as now until the departure of the 17:32 from Oxford to Great Malvern which you replace with a 17:32 faster service, calling at Hanborough and Charlbury.  That clears the single line at Charlbury at 17:48.
• You then run the halts train departing Oxford at 17:52 as far as Moreton-In-Marsh, which, calling at all stations clears the single line at 18:14 and reaches Moreton at 18:38ish.
• The 18:17 to Hereford then departs as now entering the single line at 18:20 and running as now.

So, there's your grey area - whilst it's correct to say that there's no extra paths in the peak based on the current timetable, it's perfectly possible to create one if you restructure the timetable - which is exactly what will be happening in a couple of years.  The final timetable might not look anything like the example above of course, but it demonstrates that there is still scope for improvement.

Having had a little think about the suggestion above, I'd probably make it a little more resilient by giving the 17:32 off of Oxford calls at Ascott and Shipton, and then a 17:52 could miss those out arriving Moreton around 18:34 - that would give it a little more of a buffer to reach Moreton well ahead of when the following 18:20ex Oxford reaches Ascott (at 18:39).