** This discussion has been split away from a thread on the new FGW^▸ (First Great Western) Customer Charter which included a change to their customer service number from 08457 000 125 to 03457 000 125 **
Original thread is here - http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=13049.0

It seems 0845 numbers are moving to the 0345 prefix and will then fall within inclusive packages offered by telephone companies.  For those with long memories, you may remember these types of numbers used to be 0345 and then moved over to 0845 in 2001 - so it is going back from where it came!

It seems not all phone companies, including mine, have opened up their systems to the change yet.

By June next year all 084 and 087 numbers for customer service, complaints, renewals and cancellations must move to an 0345 number.

You learn something new every day...

I have an 0845 number and my provider told me. They are in the process of updating their literature but they pointed me to this on Wikipedia.

Exactly the opposite actually.

0845 has always been revenue-sharing - it was never changed by OFCOM. BT are taking the 2p.min hit on this when included in inclusive contracts. When 0870 went to non-revenue sharing, 0845 was going to follow suit. But Ofcom changed their mind. Now 0870 is reverting again, likely to be 10p/min. Opinion is that 0870 and 0845 will be removed from call-inclusive contracts after the migration to 03xx numbers is complete next June.

Only problem is that Transport is excluded from the EU^» (European Union - about) Directive & we wait to see if the Government also exclude Transport when they enact the legislation.

Exactly.  I did all that - and I am self-employed. No big company paying my bill!

I don't think 0345 and 0845 numbers were/are "local" numbers as such, they were marketed by BT when they first came out as "lo-call" numbers in that they were cheaper than national rate numbers, but not necessarily the same connection charge or per minute charge as a true local rate number.

The 0345 and 0645 numbers of the 1980s and 1990s were nine digits long. Those were converted to ten-digit 0845 numbers in 2000. BT (and a very few others) nowadays do a special deal and include 0845 numbers within call plan allowances. 0845 calls remain expensive from all mobiles and from most landlines.

The 03 range remained unused from 2000 to 2007. Calls to the new type of ten-digit 03 numbers (030, 033, 034, 037) cost the same as calling 01 and 02 numbers and count towards inclusive allowances on landlines and mobile phones. For most callers, these are very much cheaper than calls to 084 and 087 numbers.

It appears this particular 0345 number is not yet live. All phone companies allow access to 03 numbers and all charge them at exactly the same rate as whatever they charge for calling 01 and 02 numbers. This rule is set by Ofcom.

Only existing 0845 users can move to an 0345 number. Users of other 084 and 087 numbers can move to the matching 034 or 037 number or to a new 01, 02, 030, 033 or 080 number.

0800 is almost always cheaper than 0845 when called from mobiles. 0800 is free from all landlines. 0845 is inclusive on BT call plans and expensive from most other landlines. The move to 0845 was a backwards step. They probably think 0845 calls are "local rate". This hasn't been true since 2003.

0800 numbers come with a running cost for the business. 0845 numbers are often supplied free of charge because callers cover those running costs by paying a 2p/min Service Charge hidden within the call price. Under Ofcom's "unbundled tariffs" scheme, users will have to declare this Service Charge from 2015.

Ofcom plan to make calls to 0800 numbers free from all mobile phones in 2015. If anything, this company should have moved to an 03 number (probably 033) or offered an 03 number in parallel with the 0800 number.

Yes. Revenue sharing will continue on 084 and 087 numbers but businesses will no longer be allowed to use those types of numbers for customer service. The most obvious solution is to use the matching 034 or 037 number. 03 numbers are charged the same as calling 01 and 02 numbers and revenue sharing is not allowed.

In the 1980s and 1990s, the old nine-digit 0345 numbers were charged at local rate from BT landlines. In 2000, nine-digit 0345 and 0645 numbers were converted to ten-digit 0845 numbers and continued to be charged at local rate from BT landlines. In the meantime many other landline providers had appeared and mobile usage had massively increased. 0845 calls are expensive from many landlines and very expensive from mobiles.

In 2003, BT prices for calling 01 and 02 numbers were deregulated. BT scrapped the price differential between local and national rate when calling 01 and 02 numbers. BT also moved callers on to inclusive price plans: 'Weekend', 'Evening and Weekend' or 'Anytime'. Calls to 0845 numbers from landlines suddenly became much more expensive than calls to 01 and 02 numbers because they were not inclusive. Since around 2010 or 2011 the Anytime plan has been the most popular.

When calling an 0845 number, the call price includes a 2p/min Service Charge to the benefit of the called party. Since 2009, BT has effectively "hidden" this fee by offering inclusive calls to 0845 numbers. However, these calls remain expensive for callers without a call plan, and for callers on other landline networks or using a mobile phone. BT has much less than half of the landline market. More than half of all calls are made from mobile phones. BT will be unable to "hide" the Service Charge once call prices are "unbundled". 0845 calls will no longer be inclusive within monthly allowances.

The new range of ten-digit 0345 numbers (and all other 03 numbers for that matter) are charged at the same rate as calling 01 and 02 numbers and count towards inclusive allowances. This makes 03 numbers substantially cheaper (than 0845 numbers) to call for the vast majority of callers.

It is calls to 0843, 0844, 0871, 0872 and 0873 that vary by the first six digits of the telephone number called. These are pure revenue sharing numbers.

The price of calls to the old nine-digit 0345 numbers, when made from a BT line, was tied to BT local rate in the 1990s. So too with the price of calling the replacement ten-digit 0845 numbers, but only until 2003.

Since 2003, BT has declared a nominal "local rate" call price for a tariff without inclusive minutes, but every BT customer is now on a call plan with at least some inclusive calls to 01, 02 and 03 numbers, even if only at the weekend. Since 2009, BT has also included calls to 0845 numbers within inclusive allowances, but these calls remain expensive from other landlines and from mobiles.

0870 has no Service Charge and revenue sharing is not allowed. This has applied since 2009 but this change has done nothing to bring down the cost of calling these numbers from mobiles. Additionally, as soon as revenue share was removed from 0870, many users simply swapped to an 0844 number and callers have saved nothing.

0845 has a 2p/min Service Charge. The call recipient uses this to pay for the call routing at their end of the call. There's usually nothing left over for a revenue share payment. Very large users of 0845 numbers may see half a penny per minute if they are lucky.

Ofcom propose that 0870 returns to revenue sharing in 2015 and all other 084 and 087 numbers continue with revenue sharing. Users of these numbers will have to declare the Service Charge that applies to their number.

The part you are missing is the list which tells you that 0844 477 is tariff "g6" and 0844 387 is tariff "g11". That's in a separate document. The list for 08 and 09 numbers is hundreds of pages long and each network produces their own version of this list (as each network sets their own prices). BT's prices are regulated such that they make no profit on call origination. Other networks add their markup on top.

Ofcom are going to change the system next year. There will be a single document that lists the Service Charge for each number range. Each user will declare the Service Charge that applies to their number. Each network will declare a single Access Charge that covers all 084, 087 and 09 numbers. The call price will be the Access Charge levied by your phone network plus the Service Charge that applies to the number you are calling.

For an 0844 number on the lowest tariff and therefore advertised as costing 0.5p/min, a call of one second duration using BT costs 16p. The 15p connection fee makes short calls very expensive. Connection fees on calls to 084, 087 and 09 numbers are going to be scrapped in 2015. Ofcom will instead mandate that callers will pay the Access Charge and Service Charge for a minimum of one minute (or whatever time limit is eventually decided).

They should be able to direct you to the list that allows you to look up the tariff code based on the initial digits of the telephone number. The fact they didn't do this, shows that the current system is so complicated that even they do not understand it.

Ofcom have a basic copy of the list, but beware that some of the terminology describing the number ranges is outdated and the whole thing is about to be replaced by a much simpler system.

See
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/numbering/s8_code.txt
and
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/numbering/s9_code.txt

The per-minute rate part of the BT call price hasn't altered since 1996. BT's call prices are the only ones that are regulated. Other networks charge whatever they like.

The call price regulation covering BT's 084, 087 and 09 call prices will shortly end. Ofcom (or an industry body appointed by Ofcom) will set the level of Service Charge that will in future apply to each of the telephone numbers in those number ranges. That figure will apply for all calls, irrespective of the originating network.

As a general rule of thumb, and subject to the new system being hammered out in intricate detail during 2014, the new Service Charge that will apply for 084, 087 and 09 calls will be approximately the current BT call price, plus VAT^▸ (Value Added Tax), plus another penny, with this figure then rounded up to the next whole penny.

Current BT call price of "5.1p/min plus 15p connection fee" on tariff "g6" roughly equates to 7p/min Service Charge. This is very much a "rough and ready" estimate but will do for now in understanding the general principles. A Service Charge will also have to be decided for 0870 calls; but it's likely to be around 10p/min.

BT's connection fee, and those on other networks, has relentlessly increased. This will be scrapped for calls to 084, 087 and 09 numbers. The Access Charge that replaces it will be set at a per-minute rate. BT will be free to set whatever rate they want, but it is suspected that it will be very low.

The new system will be very much easier to understand. The fact that phone networks each set and declare a single Access Charge per tariff will make it possible to compare tariffs when considering the price of calling 084, 087 and 09 numbers. It will also be possible for networks to set a zero Access Charge and make this part of the call price inclusive in call plans. If they do, this will have to apply equally to all 084, 087 and 09 numbers.

Ofcom are expected to announce the final details of the new system before the end of 2013. The project is running late as a number of objections to the proposals have been made. Some of the phone companies are saying they believe consumers will be confused by the new level of price transparency. Roughly translated I think that means "once consumers see the real call costs, they'll realise how much they have been ripped off during the last decade or more".

Look out for details of the "unbundled tariffs" system and an announcement about calls to 080 numbers becoming free from all mobiles. An announcement is expected before the end of the year.

Some time ago, I was billed five quid for a call to the local doctor on their 0844 number. They assured me that it was my phone company that was at fault because "0844 numbers are charged at the local rate". I started looking into how this all works in detail and found that the issue is very complicated, that what I was initially told was simply not true and that 084 numbers had already been banned in the NHS for some time.

084 and 087 numbers are everywhere. They are usually very expensive to call. The various problems seem to be caused by a combination of:
- many people thinking that all 084 and 087 numbers still work much like 0845 numbers did in the late 1990s - they don't,
- many people thinking that BT's rates are the only ones that are important or are in any way typical - they aren't,
- many of the number sellers being very economical with the truth as to what these calls cost - leading to many inapproriate uses,
- and slow action by Ofcom in seeing what was coming, as well as poor overall regulation to protect the consumer.

Hopefully the forthcoming regulatory changes will alleviate many of the current problems.

Many years ago, I worked for an insurance company that had call centres in India.  They used a different switchboard system to us, so we couldn't dial internally to contact them.  Instead we could call a 0871 number to effectively jump the queue ahead of all the waiting customers.  This went on for months until someone realised we were paying six digit figures every year to dial this number, and the outsourcing company were taking a large % of revenue, just for us to make what was effectively an internal call!  Eventually they moved to a VOIP system where calls were routed over the corporate network (which they were also connected to as if they were in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom)).

On the other hand, the customer facing website listed four phone numbers: sales 0800, service 0871, claims 0845 and switchboard 01793.  Everyone, and I mean nearly everyone, would call sales when they wanted service.  Which is fine.  But some staff hadn't had any service training, so you'd end up waiting twice to speak to someone.  Saved paying for the call though.