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Author Topic: Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion  (Read 98362 times)
chuffed
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« on: October 29, 2013, 05:17:26 pm »

Well they've got 2 days left, or do you suppose it will be a 'rabbit to be pulled out of the hat' at Transport Questions on 7 Nov ?
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paul7755
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« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2013, 06:03:54 pm »

I don't think it will necessarily rate its own announcement as I've pointed out before.  When considered nationally it is just one of many, many schemes being decided on in NR/ORRs ongoing discussions regarding the CP5 settlement. 

Those discussions reach a certain stage on October 31st, 'ORR's final determination', but that's all it is, a stage in the overall process which AFAICT won't be finally decided until March next year...

Paul
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Four Track, Now!
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« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2013, 09:06:58 pm »

As you would expect, I have been watching for news myself. There was a mention on BBC West news tonight, with a report and a bit of footage, but it was vague. DafT has been remarhably quiet over the past couple of days, with zero RSS feeds today. There's usually someone with a fondness for the sound of their own voice re-releasing some old news.

Speaking of which, Margaret Hodge has been ripping into DafT's capability so far as HS2 is concerned, and has expressed shock at how few top experts are on the payroll. Whilst she has stopped short of suggesting that DafT tries to tempt some of the many it made redundant out of early retirement, it could explain the silence, as what few civil servants are left check and double-check every sum.

I shall check my RSS inbox before leaving for work tomorrow. Trick or treat?

Edit: Nothing at 7.20, although it's top of the news on BBC. Off to earn a crust, then.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2013, 11:26:23 am by Four Track, Now! » Logged

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ellendune
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« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2013, 07:38:14 am »

The final determination (page 918) includes

"Dr Days to Filton Abbey Wood capacity" and
Bristol Temple Meads passenger capacity
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« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2013, 05:44:06 pm »

The economy of words is commendable...
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paul7755
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« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2013, 06:02:54 pm »

The BBC's thorough analysis of nearly 1000 pages of information about the whole of the CP5 work package seems to have stopped at 'level crossings'...

Useless.

Paul
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bignosemac
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« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2013, 06:34:31 pm »

The BBC's thorough analysis of nearly 1000 pages of information about the whole of the CP5 work package seems to have stopped at 'level crossings'...

With the BBC1 6 o'clock news headlines this evening having George Alagiah saying, "100s of dangerous level crossing will be closed...." over the recent footage of the idiot cyclist who nearly became a Class 170 hood ornament. A bad example of a 'dangerous' level crossing. The crossing was working perfectly correctly, the only dangerous activity was that of the cyclist ignoring the lights and barrier.

There are isolated incidents of level crossings and their operation proving to be dangerous following RAIB (and its predecessors) reports. The vast majority of incidents at level crossings are however down to vehicle driver/pedestrian misuse or error.

Totally inaccurate of the BBC to describe 100s of level crossings as 'dangerous'.



Apropos of nothing. My 9000th post!
« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 06:40:13 pm by bignosemac » Logged

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chuffed
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« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2013, 07:37:04 am »

This is one time when I don't want to believe everything I read in the EP !


The wait goes on for four-track funding to pave the way for Bristol Met


Read more: http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/wait-goes-track-funding-pave-way-Bristol-Metro/story-20019987-detail/story.html#ixzz2jTHCnncl
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« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2013, 01:03:01 pm »

West of England Partnership's Joint Transport Executive Committee's minutes of the meeting held 2 December 2013 give some hope and a possible timescale for the four-tracking seemingly announced in July 2012:

Quote
Network Rail Update
14.The Office of Rail Regulation (ORR) on 31 October 2013 published its Periodic Review 2013: Final determination of Network Rail's outputs and funding for 2014-19. Essentially it sets out what Network Rail can do over the next five years. It follows on from the draft Determination published in June 2013.
15.The four tracking of Filton Bank (described as Dr Days to Filton Abbey Wood capacity) is included in Annex E to the report in Table E.1 on p918. It is listed along with a host of ^Other Named Schemes^ under the general heading ^Schemes subject to the cost adjustment mechanism included in the overspend/underspend framework.^ Bristol Temple Meads passenger capacity is on the same list. No individual scheme cost figures are provided in this section although a total cost of ^5.9bn is. Effectively this means Network Rail will be provided with an overall budget within which they will budget for individual schemes.
16.The ORR is giving Network Rail until March 2015 to work up efficient plans for these enhancements before approving the funds. Network Rail remain confident the scheme will happen and they continue to design and plan for the scheme.

Which is a bit different to the quote given by Bristol City Council's Comms Officer 17 months ago:

Quote
Four track for Filton Bank? That^s a yes
 Posted on July 16, 2012 by commsofficer
 1

 A corporate sweat broke out on the forehead of the four authorities when dawn broke this morning, as we waited nervously to see if the government had funded our four tracks to Filton Bank.

 You can see who we were up against on the DfT website

 And then Rail Minister Theresa Villiers swept into Temple Meads (looking a lot calmer than us) to confirm that four-track from Temple Meads to Filton Bank will go ahead.

 Anyway, it^s all down to you again, wonderful public who like trains. Four track is the crucial bit of the jigsaw that we have to put in place to get Greater Bristol Metro Rail to work. So many, many thanks to the hundreds of you who wrote special letters to the ministers about it. Half-hourly trains in Bristol and the region, a new line to Portishead, and all those re-opened stations can actually happen.

What gives me most confidence is Network Rail's apparent desire to do the work.
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« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2013, 01:38:51 pm »

What gives me most confidence is Network Rail's apparent desire to do the work.

I think it's more that they interact with DfT and ORR enough to know what could prevent it. Certainly I heard from within NR that it will happen and people are working (quite a lot of them, too) on that basis.

I guess it's been scoring high marks for hoop jumping.

The same was said - though it is at an earlier stage, and needs more money (hence more hoops) - about Heathrow Western Access.
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« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2013, 01:51:10 pm »

It is a sad indictment of how we do infrastructure in this country that a scheme confirmed by a minister in July 2012 has to wait until 2015 to be confirmed. I can't see how it can be not done. So much else is happening that will need extra capacity, not least of which is IEP, that it has to happen. Our councillors are on the scrounge for some cascaded 165s with a view to extra local services as well.
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paul7755
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« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2013, 05:10:10 pm »

It is a sad indictment of how we do infrastructure in this country that a scheme confirmed by a minister in July 2012 has to wait until 2015 to be confirmed. I can't see how it can be not done. So much else is happening that will need extra capacity, not least of which is IEP, that it has to happen. Our councillors are on the scrounge for some cascaded 165s with a view to extra local services as well.

It will be confirmed (or not) by the end of March 2014, not in 2015.  That's when NR will publish the agreed CP5 project list, as has been the case since the HLOS was published in 2012.  The HLOS was not 'confirmation by a minister', at that stage it was a list of proposals, and a supporting statement of funds available.  Detail was to be negotiated between NR/ORR by end March 2014. 

ISTM that local media and local politicians in the Bristol area have been clouding the issues and timescales.  The decision is not late, because it is not yet due.

Paul
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chuffed
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« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2013, 05:51:22 pm »

Hopefully the newts and bats will still be in hibernation by the end of March. Then the cynic in me, thinks they can just  have 'vinyls applied' and are rebranded, ready to be put in the next cave /pond by (insert name of  group of protestors/saboteurs) who are against (insert name of infrastructure project !)
I am starting to wonder wheteher if we have great crested newt breeding farms in this country....shouldn't DEFRA be thinking about a cull?
« Last Edit: December 09, 2013, 07:07:48 pm by chuffed » Logged
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« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2013, 07:17:38 pm »

Thank you Paul7755, for the clearest explanation ever of what is going on. Hype by Bristol's politicos and the Post, then, along with photo opportunities by Mesdames Villiers (now Northern Ireland minister - a step up) and Greening (International  Development - a big step down). Meanwhile, civil servants are quietly going over the figures. We know where the real power lies.

March 2014 it is, then. Let's hope the ORR and DafT agree with NR. Hopefully, Four Track, Then!
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John R
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« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2013, 09:52:45 pm »

NR has today published an update on CP5 projects. Four tracking is still envisaged - the fact that a fourth platform is envisaged at Filton AW would appear to indicate that a full four tracking is the likely outcome - Abbey Wood is the one place where I could have envisaged a little paring back to save on costs.
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