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Author Topic: Call for faster, non-stop expresses from Wales to London  (Read 117262 times)
Rhydgaled
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« Reply #90 on: November 19, 2014, 22:52:25 »

This latest article seems a little confused. Is it talking about removing the Bristol Parkway stop from the Swansea services (which I think was already in the IEP (Intercity Express Program / Project.) plans) every hour or just an occasional 'flyer'? It seems to be saying both. If occasional services is what they are talking about then perhaps one of the Swansea services in the period when the half-hourly service extends to Swansea could be a Paddington, Newport, Cardiff and Swansea service, without the normal stops at Reading, Bridgend, Port Talbot and Neath. Wouldn't make sense to do that all day, but if a stand-out headline express service is what you want why not do the job properly?
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« Reply #91 on: November 20, 2014, 08:47:07 »

I'm not terribly sure that putting back a :28 departure from Swansea to :38, and a :25 from Cardiff to :35 would lead to a greater increase in traffic / revenue than would be lost on intermediate direct journeys which dropped in frequency from half hourly to hourly, such as Bristol Parkway to London.  In a nutshell, that's what you would do by removing stops from the faster of the two South Wales to London trains each hour, bringing capital to capital time down to just under 2 hours. I also wonder if such a change would require a change in the cancellation percking order, which currently drops the Cardiff - London service first when there's the occasional stock or infrastructure problem that reduces the services to be run.  I also note that the 06:55 from Cardiff already takes under 2 hours to Paddington and although it runs in the rush hour, this is one of the few trains carrying empty seats all the way from Reading to London (Paddington); it has one more stop than the proposed service (or is that two - does the proposed Capitals Express stop at Newport?)

An extra train each hour would squeeze capacity and I suspect be hard to fill during the day.   An iconic train / a one-off - well, you have something close already in the 06:55 and perhaps the proposal is just to remove the Swindon and Bristol Parkway stops and replace them with a Reading stop?

I note the comment about "require subsidy". Should I worry as an English person about how the Welsh spend their money?  Is it really my place to offer comment?  Well - taxation is central as far as Wales is concerned (as I understad it) so it's English money spent in Wales, and Welsh money spent in England.  But it's not balanced - the Barnett forumla http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnett_formula has 113.84 spent by government per capita in Wales for every 100.00 spent in England, and I suspect that the Welsh don't pay on average 13% more tax - in fact I would guess the Welsh tax take per head is less.  So I believe it's valid for me to ask about the money being spent, because some of it is mine. 

At the recast of services post-electrification, we have a whole new ball game, and the stuff above and of this announcement may fade to insignificant.  So perhaps it is a good idea to help promote Wales by speeding up the services in two stages - one by dropping stops soon, and the second by electification at which point with faster trains, a discreet addition of a Bristol Parkway stop in order to provide connections into the extra trains running through there would happen.
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #92 on: November 20, 2014, 09:25:52 »

On the subject of taxes and subsidies, I was interested to read in this Guardian article that Bristol is

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the only major English city outside London to make a positive net contribution to the national economy...

This is a blessing and a curse; it means that governments (Labour and Conservative) tend to direct investment elsewhere on the grounds that Bristol can fend for itself. So we shouldn't be surprised to see subsidised empty seats gliding through Parkway, or flying over what I think we're still allowed to call the Bristol Channel.

Makes you wonder though: what could Bristol achieve if it was allowed to keep its own tax revenue?
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« Reply #93 on: September 09, 2015, 10:46:37 »

We haven't had any local services between Didcot and Bath since 1965.  That is why we are served by the HST (High Speed Train)'s.  A local service from Bristol to Swindon to Didcot (e.g. restoration of the short lived Oxford service would be very welcome) and this would allow removal of more of the Didcot stops. However these were removed because there were not enough paths for a robust service.

That is highly relevant IMHO (in my humble opinion).  A local service would also be an opportunity to reopen Corsham station (which I, selfishly, think shouldn't be used as an reason to slow down the express service) 

Longer term a stopper might be integrated to East-West Rail plans or even Western access to Heathrow so you might see BTM (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI))-Bath-Corsham-Chippenham-Royal Wootton Bassett-Swindon-Didcot-Oxford-Bichester-Bedford-Cambridge or Swindon-Didcot-Reading-Heathrow. 
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didcotdean
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« Reply #94 on: September 09, 2015, 13:51:29 »

Plenty of new station proposals in Oxfordshire have floundered from the start by the lack of any suitable service.

So a local could stop at Grove - Didcot West - Didcot Central - Didcot North - Culham - Oxford Redbridge - Oxford ....

All of the above have been proposed at some time in recent years. Didcot West is sometimes Milton Park. A new large housing development around Culham station has been predicated on the basis of improved train service. Plus the local council has wanted to be rid of 'Parkway' from Didcot station for years, but with up to three stations in/around Didcot it may need a qualifier.

Just off to fly my pig now.
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ellendune
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« Reply #95 on: September 09, 2015, 19:18:55 »

On the subject of taxes and subsidies, I was interested to read in this Guardian article that Bristol is

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the only major English city outside London to make a positive net contribution to the national economy...

This is a blessing and a curse; it means that governments (Labour and Conservative) tend to direct investment elsewhere on the grounds that Bristol can fend for itself. So we shouldn't be surprised to see subsidised empty seats gliding through Parkway, or flying over what I think we're still allowed to call the Bristol Channel.

Makes you wonder though: what could Bristol achieve if it was allowed to keep its own tax revenue?

Not sure I buy your argument.  After all London uses it to ensure that it scoops up most of any investment money going.  Perhaps your argument should be the correct one.
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Rob on the hill
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« Reply #96 on: October 07, 2015, 13:55:26 »

New Great Western train times 'slower than 1970s', RMT (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) claims:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-34465170
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bobm
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« Reply #97 on: October 07, 2015, 14:05:54 »

Just for ease of reference I have quoted the article linked above

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New ^4.5m trains running from London to south Wales will be slower than those 40 years ago, a transport union has claimed.

The Rail, Maritime and Transport union says research shows 1970s services were faster than those advertised by Great Western Railways for Intercity trains.

The promised London to Cardiff journey time is 113 minutes, compared to 105 minutes under British Rail in 1977.

GWR (Great Western Railway) said the union was not comparing like with like.

It also said electrification of the track would increase speeds to match some of the 1970 times, and there were more frequent services now that also stopped at more stations.


Line break
Speeds promised by 2018:

London - Bristol Temple Meads: 90 minutes

London - Cardiff: 113 minutes

London - Swansea: 164 minutes

1977 advertised speeds:

London - Bristol Temple Meads: 85 minutes

London - Cardiff: 105 minutes

London - Swansea: 163 minutes

Source: RMT (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers)

RMT general secretary Mick Cash said the report demonstrated the failures of rail privatisation.

"Privatised rail services are not only more overcrowded and expensive they are also slower.

"And of course as well as being publicly owned, British Rail trains were publicly manufactured for far less cost in the UK (United Kingdom), as opposed to the new IEP (Intercity Express Program / Project.) trains which are manufactured in Japan."

Express train

GWR said some of the RMT's facts were incorrect, challenging a claim that the London-Bristol journey time would be slower.

"The fastest Bristol-London journey time, quoted by the RMT, in 1977 was one hour 25 minutes. Following electrification and the new trains, this will be one hour 19 minutes, that's six minutes faster than in 1977.

"In 1977, six trains ran every two hours between Cardiff-London and Bristol-London, compared to 12 trains every two hours following electrification and the introduction of new trains. That's double the number of services.

"The fastest Cardiff-London journey time, quoted by the RMT, in 1977 was one hour 45 minutes. This will be the same with the introduction of electrification and new trains."

RMT is in dispute with GWR over plans to cut guards and buffet car services.

Stuart Cole, professor of transport at the University of South Wales, said there had been one express train in the 1970s which ran direct from Cardiff to London without stopping.

"There was no Bristol Parkway then. They've picked the train which was the fastest as far as I can understand it; one train in the morning which did one hour 41 minutes. Most of them took longer than that.

"It they took the average journey times, that would be much more sensible."

Calling for a publically-owned railway system, Cardiff Central Labour MP (Member of Parliament) Jo Stevens said privatised rail had been a failure which delivered "little by way of improvements for passengers in Cardiff but plenty by way of taxpayer subsidies for the directors and shareholders of [Great Western Railway]".
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bobm
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« Reply #98 on: October 07, 2015, 14:14:38 »

I guess they have been looking at this poster at the National Railway Museum

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Adelante_CCT
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« Reply #99 on: October 07, 2015, 15:08:27 »

Quote
And of course as well as being publicly owned, British Rail trains were publicly manufactured for far less cost in the UK (United Kingdom), as opposed to the new IEP (Intercity Express Program / Project.) trains which are manufactured in Japan.

I didn't know Newton Aycliffe was in Japan?
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Timmer
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« Reply #100 on: October 07, 2015, 17:20:34 »

Gosh, London to Bath in 69 minutes, never see that again.
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Tim
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« Reply #101 on: October 07, 2015, 17:25:26 »

Quote
And of course as well as being publicly owned, British Rail trains were publicly manufactured for far less cost in the UK (United Kingdom), as opposed to the new IEP (Intercity Express Program / Project.) trains which are manufactured in Japan.

I didn't know Newton Aycliffe was in Japan?

Are they not being assembled in Aycliffe IKEA style after the hi-tech hi-value stuff has been done in Japan?
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TonyK
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« Reply #102 on: October 07, 2015, 17:27:05 »

Gosh, London to Bath in 69 minutes, never see that again.

Didn't often see it in the 1970s, either. The HSTs (High Speed Train) are getting slower - it's the age of the trains.
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Timmer
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« Reply #103 on: October 07, 2015, 17:43:24 »

Gosh, London to Bath in 69 minutes, never see that again.

Didn't often see it in the 1970s, either. The HSTs (High Speed Train) are getting slower - it's the age of the trains.
Indeed, that would have been the first stop Bath Spa service. Without digging out the timetable, I think there was only one maybe two that ran non stop.

I say you will never see a timetabled 69 minutes to Bath again because GWR (Great Western Railway) would never run them non stop London to Bath. We might see London-Chippenham-Bath-Bristol in the evening peaks and vice versa in the mornings when one of the four services that run hourly via Parkway runs via Bath during the peaks.
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John R
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« Reply #104 on: October 07, 2015, 22:32:04 »

The RMT (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) are correct and Professor Stuart Cole is wrong to suggest otherwise. There were indeed several trains doing Paddington to Cardiff in 1 hr 45 mins in 1977, with only a stop at Newport. (And vice versa.)

There were two evening services first stop Bath Spa in 69 mins, but an hourly service throughout the day at 74 mins, so still a lot faster than today.  Not so good if you used Chippenham though  - 1 train every two hours. 
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