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Author Topic: Obesity and the railways  (Read 14524 times)
stuving
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« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2013, 13:14:18 »

Did you spot this bit?
Quote
N042 The seat pitch for both bay and unidirectional seating must be capable of being selected so as to allow the seating density to be adjusted to optimise the balance between adequate seating capacity and space for seated passengers.

It's not exactly clear what it means, but presumably it should be something like:

  • The main requirements (number of seats, user population etc) apply "as delivered"
  • Once delivered, seat pitch and other parameters can be adjusted to trade seats for "comfort"
  • For those now outside the percentile limits, "comfort" is a euphemism
  • Extra seats are to be provided with the trains

I wonder if there are any formal requirements on ToCs about passenger sizes and trains in service. The conventional rolling stock TSI is still being gestated.
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stuving
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« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2013, 13:23:25 »

I note that no body width is specified, which is what we've recently been discussing
Yes it is - by reference. However, this is where the poor wording of this spec. gets in the way. What it says, 5% female to 95% male, only works properly if if the upper male figure is bigger than that for women. In this case it isn't, as the 5/95 figures for hip breadth are: women - 350/460 and men - 350/430.

If they follow the words, and use 430 mm, 5% of men and more than 5% of women are bigger. The words ought to specify 97.5% of adults, or the greater of the 95% limit for men and women, which would be 460 mm.

You could make a case for some averaging for two and three-seat sets, but only if you are careful about the statistics of it - and in any case that's not spelled out either.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2013, 13:40:02 »

Height & Knee-length do not cover overall width of a person, sorry
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stuving
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« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2013, 13:46:48 »

I've just spotted a warning in that the page I gave a link to; the data are not taken from AdultData. The figures do, however, look reasonable compared to some older data I have.

Of course it's also true that hip width is not the widest bit of (most) people. Shoulder width is bigger, and here again the male figure is the one to use: 530 mm.
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paul7575
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« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2013, 14:15:48 »

Did you spot this bit?
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N042 The seat pitch for both bay and unidirectional seating must be capable of being selected so as to allow the seating density to be adjusted to optimise the balance between adequate seating capacity and space for seated passengers.

It's not exactly clear what it means...


Perhaps it just means that the same carriage permanent fitting arrangements must be capable of being used whichever layout is chosen.  There are seating pitch variations depending on whether the particular unit is to be used primarily as a commuter train, or medium or long distance inter-city, and the ratios of first/standard, bay/airline etc can vary.   So the overall layout can change but still within the parameters laid down for the different variants.

It would be daft if the exact seating layout was a factory option that could never be varied after delivery.  And of course the spec was written to allow for subsets of trains that would might never be used on the GWML (Great Western Main Line), such as the proposed Kings Cross to Kings Lynn commuter variant.

Paul
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stuving
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« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2013, 15:12:35 »

It would be daft if the exact seating layout was a factory option that could never be varied after delivery. 

Well, I guess that still means it will depend on what requirements are placed on operators, not suppliers. There's nothing in the TSI for high-speed rolling stock (L.84/135 Annex)- all 258 pages of it - but then that is really meant to cover health and safety aspects, not confort.
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LiskeardRich
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« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2013, 17:50:59 »

I'm sorry, but if seats are available & one has a ticket - you are as entitled to a seat as the person beside you!

But that seat is not fully available if the other person already sat there needs more than the width of one seat......
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ChrisB
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« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2013, 17:53:09 »

They've only paid for one seat....
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LiskeardRich
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« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2013, 17:58:05 »

I will embarrass fatties if they are taking up more than their fair share of my seat. Sorry, but 99% of the time the've picked their size as a life-style choice & why should I pay for that in getting half a seat. I will even suggest they move to the aisle seat to hang off theirs into the aisle if necessary.

Around 75% of people who are defined as obese do not choose as a lifestyle, a vast majority are medically related.
95% of the last England rugby squad are medically obese. I would love to see you make a comment to one of them.
This is a very shallow comment from you.
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LiskeardRich
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« Reply #24 on: December 21, 2013, 17:58:39 »

They've only paid for one seat....

No they've paid to get from A to B. You don't pay for seats at all on the UK (United Kingdom) railway.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #25 on: December 21, 2013, 21:00:15 »

true - but there's no way their ticket entitles them to more than anyone elsde with the same ticket!
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JayMac
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« Reply #26 on: December 21, 2013, 21:13:40 »

Since giving up smoking tobacco, I'd rather not sit next to anyone who stinks of tobacco.

Am I allowed to embarrass these 'stinkies' for their lifestyle choice?

I don't condone violence in any shape or form, but I'd not stick up for someone who was slapped after embarrassing a 'fatty' and their 'lifestyle' choice.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #27 on: December 21, 2013, 22:31:04 »

As a smoker, I'd appreciate knowing if my clothes stank! I think you'd have to be an extremely heavy smoker not to notice.

You used to spot pib-goers a mile off, but simce the good ban on smoking indoors in public places, its not ofyen you come across a reeking person
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #28 on: December 22, 2013, 08:07:27 »

Around 75% of people who are defined as obese do not choose as a lifestyle, a vast majority are medically related.
95% of the last England rugby squad are medically obese. I would love to see you make a comment to one of them.
This is a very shallow comment from you.
[/quote]

you are correct that by simply using BMI to define obesity, many international athletes/sportsmen are indeed "obese", however BMI is a blunt instrument and does not distinguish between tubs of lard and muscular related weight/build.

I'd be interested in where you source the figure of 75% of obesity being medically related?  Generally speaking I think it's a lifestyle issue, starting with youngsters eating rubbish and plonking themselves in front of computers rather than playing sport, through to adults being similarly inactive and troughing on pies, junk food etc - I think the huge amount of resource the NHS has to devote to paediatric and adult bariatric surgery is beginning to bear this out.

The smoking/smell comparison is not really comparing apples with apples in this debate as whilst it might not be pleasant sitting next to someone who smells like an ashtray, you do still get to sit on 100% of a seat........unless they are an obese smoker of course!  Wink

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thetrout
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« Reply #29 on: December 22, 2013, 08:51:37 »

Generally speaking I think it's a lifestyle issue, starting with youngsters eating rubbish and plonking themselves in front of computers rather than playing sport, through to adults being similarly inactive and troughing on pies, junk food etc - I think the huge amount of resource the NHS has to devote to paediatric and adult bariatric surgery is beginning to bear this out.

I resisted the urge to comment in this thread, but now that's been thrown out there I can no longer hold back Lips sealed

Everything you have described there is me all over. Poor diet, sat in front of computers all day and no playing of sport. (Do alot of walking though!)

However the punch line? I am classed as Underweight!! Weigh in at less than 60kg in fact Undecided I I haven't earned the nickname "Skeleton" for nothing... Lips sealed

I have also had surgery to "repair" a problem in my digestive system that was NOT caused by my poor diet.

So please, do not stereotype those young folk who have an appalling diet and sit in front of computers all day rather then go and see that thing in the sky that it's name escapes me... santa Sun!! Although in a lighter context, some gents would probably not mind turning to Page 3 Grin
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