Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[trainbuff]

ellendune may well be correct.

The only issue with this would be the towns of Dawlish and Teignmouth potentially losing a rail service. None of the inland routes have stations in these towns due to the tunnelling involved.

Ultimately it will be a political decision that is made and it might be that tunnelling would be more cost effective in the long run.

But how many political decisions are not based on short term needs?

Just a thought

[grahame]

The full report correctly states that other things will be needed other than the defence of the Dawlish Route. Link here:

http://www.okehampton-today.co.uk/article.cfm?id=416753&headline=Implication%20that%20%E2%80%98northern%20route%E2%80%99%20rail%20line%20is%20not%20a%20priority&sectionIs=news&searchyear=2016

Agreed - the headline is a "grabber" and the story changes within the article ... the link on the top of my post also links to the full same article (I think) - though the URL I had was somewhat shorter.

[ellendune]

But how many political decisions are not based on short term needs?

Depressingly true

[bobm]

Network Rail have organised a number of public walk in sessions for people to see the plans for the causeway at Teignmouth

Thursday 17th November 2016   The Langstone Cliff Hotel, Dawlish Warren    16:30hrs – 19:00hrs
Monday 28th November 2016   Mercure Rougemont Hotel, Exeter Central     15:00hrs  -  19:00hrs
Tuesday 29th November 2016     The Pavilions, Teignmouth     15:00hrs – 19:00hrs 
Wednesday 30th November 2016     Best Western Livermead Cliff Hotel, Torquay  15:00hrs – 19:00hrs
Monday 5th December 2016   The Copthorne Hotel, Plymouth     15:00hrs – 19:00hrs
Tuesday 6th December 2016     Alverton Manor Hotel, Truro     15:00hrs – 19:00hrs

[Tim]

ellendune may well be correct.

The only issue with this would be the towns of Dawlish and Teignmouth potentially losing a rail service. None of the inland routes have stations in these towns due to the tunnelling involved.

Ultimately it will be a political decision that is made and it might be that tunnelling would be more cost effective in the long run.

But how many political decisions are not based on short term needs?

Just a thought

Three of my thought are that even if the sea wall route is abandoned, the sea wall still needs to be maintained and/or strengthened because it is protecting the town behind it not just the railway (that would presumably be out of someone else's budget though - although it is all public money at the end of the day so does it really matter which pot is comes out of?).

Second thought is that if the sea wall didn't have a railway on the top of it, it would be far easier to maintain and strengthen

Third thought it that perhaps there is a compromise here.  Divert the mainline inland and close and lift one of the tracks through the Dawlish Route.  Retain the other line for purely local services and use the space vacated by the lifted tract to install better defences of the remaining line and the town behind. 

[stuving]

Without seeing any detailed information from NR^» (Network Rail - home page), I can only make sense of the offshoring of the railway if it allows a modern seawall design to be built. By that I mean one with a sweeping curve up its face from the sea bed, so it turns a wave back on itself and stops much water coming over the top. If (as I hazily recall) that needs fairly deep water, and can't be put at the top of a shelving beach, the proposal makes some sense - otherwise the price of leaving a bit of space for cliff-falls is railway with less protection than now.

[ellendune]

Without seeing any detailed information from NR^» (Network Rail - home page), I can only make sense of the offshoring of the railway if it allows a modern seawall design to be built. By that I mean one with a sweeping curve up its face from the sea bed, so it turns a wave back on itself and stops much water coming over the top. If (as I hazily recall) that needs fairly deep water, and can't be put at the top of a shelving beach, the proposal makes some sense - otherwise the price of leaving a bit of space for cliff-falls is railway with less protection than now.

You could install that on the face of the existing sea wall.  As I understand it the moving out to seaward is to get away from the unstable cliff which is seen as a bigger problem. 

[IndustryInsider]

Hmmm, let's hope that suggestion is slightly more accurate than the nonsense sprouted in the Daily Express (and others) last Autumn saying we were all set for the coldest and snowiest winter in modern times!

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/442873/Coldest-winter-in-modern-times-on-way-with-snow-forecast-for-Britain-starting-next-week

Here's this years offering from the Daily Express:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/nature/604619/Long-range-weather-forecast-Britain-cold-winter-2015-arctic-snow-freeze

Someone really should have a word with them!   

Here's this years carbon copy winter-of-doom forecast from James Madden and Nathan Rao:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/weather/714262/UK-snow-long-range-weather-forecast-cold-winter-2016-Britain-freeze

And here's this year's:

(British Broadcasting Corporation - home page)-weather" target="_blank">http://www.express.co.uk/news/weather/868795/UK-winter-weather-forecast-2017-snow-long-range-weather-forecast-Met-Office-BBC-weather

[Chris from Nailsea]

Oh, no. 

You've just reminded me that I meant to lock this topic, last year - simply to avoid such repetitious drivel being given the oxygen of publicity.

CfN. 

[grahame]

Oh, no. 

You've just reminded me that I meant to lock this topic, last year - simply to avoid such repetitious drivel being given the oxygen of publicity.

CfN. 

Four years ago this month the railway line was breached at Dawlish.

Apart from "repetitious drivel" and various reports, what decisions have been made about how to avoid future problems, or at least to avoid Plymouth and Cornwall being isolated from the rest of the rail network?

[ChrisB]

Kicked into the next Government....

[PhilWakely]

Kicked into the next Government....

What you really mean is 'included in the manifesto of the next potential <insert any party name here> government and then conveniently kicked into the one following that one'. 

[broadgage]

A lot more studies, reviews, and consultations will be required, possibly followed by a public enquiry and/or a Royal commission.
The results of such studies and reviews will be that more studies are needed.

Eventually a proposal will emerge, but detailed planning will then be needed, and an application for planning permission which will be opposed.

A new government will then announce that the studies, reviews, and consultations done by the last lot were flawed, and need to be done again, but better.
Meanwhile the newts are no doubt breeding, and perhaps bats also.

[paul7575]

A lot more studies, reviews, and consultations will be required, possibly followed by a public enquiry and/or a Royal commission.
The results of such studies and reviews will be that more studies are needed.

Eventually a proposal will emerge, but detailed planning will then be needed, and an application for planning permission which will be opposed.

A new government will then announce that the studies, reviews, and consultations done by the last lot were flawed, and need to be done again, but better.
Meanwhile the newts are no doubt breeding, and perhaps bats also.

Even if they get the go ahead after all that there’ll probably have been a UN veto arranged...

Paul

[grahame]

A lot more studies, reviews, and consultations will be required, possibly followed by a public enquiry and/or a Royal commission.
The results of such studies and reviews will be that more studies are needed.

You are a cynic, Sir .... and probably correct!