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Author Topic: Revenue Protection at Stations  (Read 21631 times)
Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #30 on: May 20, 2014, 21:41:12 »

An excellent account, bignosemac!  Wink

I have seen a fairly similar situation develop, in the past, which I recorded on our 'frequent posters' board at the time, at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=7222.msg71991#msg71991  Wink Cheesy Grin
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William Huskisson MP (Member of Parliament) was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830.  Many more have died in the same way since then.  Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.

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« Reply #31 on: June 09, 2014, 19:21:40 »

Today (June 09 2014) there were 8 officials on the platforms 4 RPI (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context)) and 4 security assistants. Quite a presence !
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« Reply #32 on: June 09, 2014, 22:21:12 »

Having just returned from touring the North West on a Rover, I have been reflecting on the differing revenue protection systems. Some big stations like Carlisle and those in Manchester have no barriers but plenty of protection from real people. In Manchester, there are staff checking those leaving and entering platforms. On most of my Northern Trains journeys tickets were checked after every stop (admittedly not on very inner suburban lines).  One 3 car TPE (Trans Pennine Express) (TransPennine Express) train had 5 staff for some of the journey, all of them weighing in.

The effect of this (to me) was to feel confident that someone knew what was happening throughout the train and a much more human face of the company.  It clearly worked as at least twice non-paying pax were caught out and one pursued to the platform where he had tried to escape. Whether it was my sage appearance ( Grin) or something else, but I was given only cursory attention a couple of times where they conductor had his eye on those he thought more likely to be ticketless. Recent incidents may show that appearance is a false indication of honesty.

I enjoyed the open access to the platforms and the interaction with staff and believe more companies would improve their PR (Public Relations) as well as their revenue by employing well trained staff whom pax would know would almost always appear.  Of course, getting through the train is essential and I understand London commuter trains may be exceptionally overwhelmed, but Northern seem to manage at Manchester (there are barriers at Leeds, I know, but I only used one train from there).
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JayMac
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« Reply #33 on: June 09, 2014, 23:14:27 »

Head over to RailUK Forums for the many tales of woe regarding the Revenue Protection staff at Manchester Piccadilly. It's worth noting that these staff are not employed by Northern Rail, but are instead employed by G4S. Often as agency staff at little above minimum wage.
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« Reply #34 on: June 10, 2014, 00:43:28 »

I dont think they are G4S anymore, its now STM, the same guys that run the 'out of hours' LoOROL revenue protection 'racket'.

If I also remember rightly they can only 'officially' check Northern tickets as that's all that the licences they wear show (however we all know once we delve into railway lore that any railway servant can check any operators tickets).

I have noticed that in the past when going through Man Pic coming off a FTPE» (First TransPennine Express - website) they were not checking. But as soon as a Northern arrived they 'woke up', also none of them seem very clued up on the different types of passes. e.g. boxes, staff passes, transec passes, etc etc
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grahame
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« Reply #35 on: June 10, 2014, 03:02:58 »

On most of my Northern Trains journeys tickets were checked after every stop ...

The effect of this (to me) was to feel confident that someone knew what was happening throughout the train and a much more human face of the company.  It clearly worked ...

Something I've seen recently is ticket checking on board, before the train sets off - it's happened quite a few times at Westbury, and ( vaguely remembered ) on an occasion at Swindon on the TransWilts.  It not only helps to collect Westbury - Trowbridge revenue, but also expands fare checking and collection time which can be at a premium for services that pick up substantial passenger numbers at Trowbridge when the booking office is closed, or at Melksham.  As a side effect, it also helps to identify the occasional passenger for Bradford-on-Avon / Bath who gets on the train in error before it's too late.

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Whether it was my sage appearance ( Grin) or something else, but I was given only cursory attention a couple of times where they conductor had his eye on those he thought more likely to be ticketless. Recent incidents may show that appearance is a false indication of honesty.

Appearance is only a trend .. and it works both ways.  Difficult one that, and fraught with "bias" and "political correctness" risks however the staff play it.   For an outside observer, there can be a feeling of false bias too; on the smaller lines (and I count TransWilts in there even though our passenger numbers are starting to overtake other lines) the staff get to know the habitual fare avoiders on one hand, and the regulars who are always fully ticketed ... and an occasional user / first time user on the line may observe the application of specific knowledge as the application of stereotyping / bias.

Quote
I enjoyed the open access to the platforms and the interaction with staff and believe more companies would improve their PR (Public Relations) as well as their revenue by employing well trained staff whom pax would know would almost always appear.  Of course, getting through the train is essential and I understand London commuter trains may be exceptionally overwhelmed, but Northern seem to manage at Manchester (there are barriers at Leeds, I know, but I only used one train from there).

I agree with you.   

And taking the opposite side of the coin, barriers which delay passengers trying to exit with legitimate tickets lead to a resentment of the system; personally, I sometimes feel that my integrity is being called into question when I have to queue to get off the platform, and / or get rejected by the barriers.   Should arrival time statistics be measured for when passengers exit ("escape") from the controlled area rather than the time at which the train's wheels stop turning?
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« Reply #36 on: June 10, 2014, 17:44:46 »

And taking the opposite side of the coin, barriers which delay passengers trying to exit with legitimate tickets lead to a resentment of the system; personally, I sometimes feel that my integrity is being called into question when I have to queue to get off the platform, and / or get rejected by the barriers.   Should arrival time statistics be measured for when passengers exit ("escape") from the controlled area rather than the time at which the train's wheels stop turning?

I completely agree with that. Ticket Barriers serve a purpose don't get me wrong... But are also a major inconvenience at times. I find it quite offensive for an inanimate object to tell me to "Seek Assistance" when I know what I am doing and I personally feel I need no assistance.

Some railway staff also wrongly believe that a break of journey occurs the moment you go through said barriers, which is simply incorrect. Recently I was point-blank refused access through some barriers because I had an Advance ticket and BoJ (Break of Journey) was not permitted... Sod the customer who had just bought a veggie burger from a McDonalds Outlet on the station but was served a BigMac Burger instead Roll Eyes

Also from a busy train where you have been unable to purchase a ticket at journey start through fault of the operator. In a personal capacity, I find having to queue to buy a ticket for 20 minutes after the journey which perhaps only took 20 minutes itself rather irksome.
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Grin Grin Grin Grin
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« Reply #37 on: July 26, 2014, 19:55:08 »

Have you spotted these notices at Reading?

I thought the public stance on barriers was that they were always operating, and if they were in fact left open with no staff we don't need to know as we ought to have tickets anyway.
So were the previous hours announced to the public?

Wouldn't you expect the words to say "please ensure that you have your tickets and travel documentation with you at all times, as they may be checked elsewhere." It reads as if it's saying "outside these hours a ticket is not required".


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« Reply #38 on: July 26, 2014, 20:30:26 »

Done so that PFs (Penalty Fare) at midnight aren't a shock...
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« Reply #39 on: July 27, 2014, 12:11:04 »

Don't forget PAD» (Paddington (London) - next trains) is going 24hrs barrier operation.
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paul7575
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« Reply #40 on: July 27, 2014, 12:16:47 »

I think I'd tend to agree that giving precise times is odd.   I'd have just put posters up implying that the barriers were about to become effectively a 'full time' operation - and hence reminded passengers that delays might be avoided if everyone has their ticket ready on approach to the barrier line, rather than acting surprised when they get to the front...

Paul
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