Non existant revenue protection

[whole diary]

[Btline]

I travelled the North Downs line recently, intending to use the Ranger ticket to explore the towns in the area.

Attempted to purchase one from a SWT^▸ (South West Trains) guard on the way from London to Guildford; he said he was unable to sell. (is this true?)
Ticket offices on the line where either closed, non-existent or the queues were so long I would have missed my train.

The guards on the 4 trains I used did not leave the cab once, despite lots of unmanned stations and gaps of >10 minutes between stops.

Is this a major issue, or was it a one off?

[LiskeardRich]

Whenever I've traveled on route to Gatwick, I'd always incorrectly assumed them to be DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) as I've not once seen any member of staff. I haven't been to Gatwick for 3 years now by train, but prior to that I was travelling to Gatwick every couple of months between 2005 and 2011.

[bobm]

I travelled to Gatwick the other day and was sitting in first class at the back of the train.

There was a member of staff in the back cab who didn't emerge from there once except to change ends at Redhill.

They did sell one ticket - when someone walked down and knocked on the door! 

[tom m]

I regularly use this line and its very rare to see the guard on the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) services, not sure about SW.

Ticket checks only seem to be done by the revenue protection rather than the guard, so it seems to be abit random

[stuving]

It's patchy, I'd say. Ticket checks are not unknown, but certainly not usual.

On the bit near Reading (which I use most) there's a natural tendency to rely on the barriers there, and not to bother. But they do sell tickets on half of the run, and some do throughout - even though from Reading to Guildford is a penalty fares zone. Some will announce as they go that buying a ticket will save time (and dealing with the excess fares office) at Reading. On reflection, I rather think that ticket-selling on the Reading half of the line is a lot rarer than it was; so presumably reliance on penalty fares is taking over.

SWT^▸ (South West Trains)? No. They announce at the start of the journey that they will be in the centre of the train, and that's where they stay.

[Fourbee]

It is a bit patchy in my experience, sometimes as mentioned you get the offer to sell a ticket, sometimes no appearance at all and occasionally a full check (I was in first class* at the front of a turbo the other day and got asked for my ticket).

*that has been made into standard class, but more often than not is my private saloon as people still assume it is first class!

On the subject of penalty fares, with a lot of TVMs^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) not accepting cash payments and a lack of booking offices I really wonder whether the scheme should still be allowed to run on that section. In any case, I've have never seen anyone PF^▸ (Penalty Fare)'d and the guards are usually willing to sell a ticket (if they appear, of course and their machine is working).

[grahame]

There is a lot to be said for occasional and unpredictable time and date ticket checking (with teeth),  provided that there is always a very clear opportunity to purchase.  So I wouldn't in the the longer term worry about specific journeys where it doesn't happen.

[paul7575]

SWT^▸ (South West Trains)? No. They announce at the start of the journey that they will be in the centre of the train, and that's where they stay.

I'm pretty sure SWT guards on that route are what they call 'non-commercial'.  AIUI^▸ (as I understand it) they don't sell tickets, don't have machines with them, and they are only there to operate the doors;  and on non-modified 458/0s they have to be in one of the cabs as there are no control panels elsewhere in the train.

Paul

[BerkshireBugsy]

I am really surprised to read of the lack of ticket checks on this line.

I haven't travelled on it regularly for over a year but when I used the route on a daily basis I could count the occasions during my 2 year residence in Reigate when my ticket wasn't checked on the fingers of one hand.

I regularly used the 0634 from Reading to Reigate and the 1618 back. The TMs^‡(resolve) would be quite thorough - especially as the afternoon service was a honeypot for students trying to travel without tickets.

My memory may be wrong but I don't remember them being DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard))

[tom m]

Its not, guard instructs the driver to close the doors with the bell system

[stuving]

I'm pretty sure SWT^▸ (South West Trains) guards on that route are what they call 'non-commercial'.  AIUI^▸ (as I understand it) they don't sell tickets, don't have machines with them, and they are only there to operate the doors;  and on non-modified 458/0s they have to be in one of the cabs as there are no control panels elsewhere in the train.

Paul

Which agrees with what I thought. But then, to make us all look a little foolish, coming into Reading this afternoon (in a 450) the guard appears in carriage 1, checking tickets, Avantix^▸ (Ticket Issuing System used on board trains) on hip! After we arrived he even appeared to be selling a ticket, though he might have been using his machine to answer a query.

[Surrey 455]

After we arrived he even appeared to be selling a ticket, though he might have been using his machine to answer a query.

I remember on a journey from Guildford to Reading last year that the guard was selling and checking tickets on the train and when we arrived at Reading he stood by the excess fares windows to sell more tickets for any arriving passengers that needed one.


Edited to correct quote display issues

[stuving]

After we arrived he even appeared to be selling a ticket, though he might have been using his machine to answer a query.

I remember on a journey from Guildford to Reading last year that the guard was selling and checking tickets on the train and when we arrived at Reading he stood by the excess fares windows to sell more tickets for any arriving passengers that needed one.

To clarify, I was talking about an SWT^▸ (South West Trains) train, following on from paul7755.

As I said earlier, from Guildford to Reading has penalty fares, so FGW^▸ (First Great Western) guards probably ought not to be selling tickets - but some do. Maybe they are allowing for known deficiencies in the ticket-selling facilities?