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Author Topic: Didcot Power Station - events and incidents, ongoing discussion  (Read 44417 times)
JayMac
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« Reply #30 on: October 20, 2014, 03:17:16 »

A couple of tweeted images from the Fire Services at the scene:

https://twitter.com/fireabingdon/status/523959737705308160/photo/1
https://twitter.com/fireabingdon/status/523951024114262016/photo/1

Daylight will no doubt bring a better idea of the scale of the damage.
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"Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for the rest of the day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."

- Sir Terry Pratchett.
Red Squirrel
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« Reply #31 on: October 20, 2014, 09:26:51 »

I went to see a former bonded tobacco warehouse at Canons Marsh in Bristol get blown up, at 7am one Sunday. It was heaving with people. Friends had a breakfast barbeque. It went down eerily quietly compared to the maroon fired on the rooftop to frighten the birds away, and the whole place began to smell of old Woodbines. There was no attempt to stop people seeing it, and the footage was used as the title sequence for Children in Need's TV appeal. People will always gather to watch such epic demolitions.

Indeed they did.  It was 29 May 1988 - and I, too, was there (in an official capacity).  Wink





I was there on Brandon Hill that day too. I remember finding it very disconcerting that no-one had thought to post-sync the sound. As FT,N! says, the building crumpled and fell in total silence - and then, just after if hit the deck, you heard the crackling of the explosives that had brought it down. Most odd.

(Before anyone tries to explain: Yes I do understand that light travels a bit quicker than sound...  Roll Eyes )
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stuving
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« Reply #32 on: October 20, 2014, 09:41:44 »

I was there on Brandon Hill that day too. I remember finding it very disconcerting that no-one had thought to post-sync the sound. As FT,N! says, the building crumpled and fell in total silence - and then, just after if hit the deck, you heard the crackling of the explosives that had brought it down. Most odd.

(Before anyone tries to explain: Yes I do understand that light travels a bit quicker than sound...  Roll Eyes )

What's really odd is that not just every film or TV drama, but science even  documentaries and news footage of big distant explosions is often re-synced to bring the bang forwards. So you learn to expect the impossible.

It's probably getting to be the same with crashing vehicles - you almost expect them to flip into slo-mo after the initial impact. And while the sync on explosions may be harmless, creating a gut feeling that car crashes are balletic isn't.
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TonyK
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« Reply #33 on: October 20, 2014, 22:58:06 »


What's really odd is that not just every film or TV drama, but science even  documentaries and news footage of big distant explosions is often re-synced to bring the bang forwards. So you learn to expect the impossible.

It's probably getting to be the same with crashing vehicles - you almost expect them to flip into slo-mo after the initial impact. And while the sync on explosions may be harmless, creating a gut feeling that car crashes are balletic isn't.

On butts duty whilst in the TAVR (not the same as I understand it was in the Navy) in the mid-1970s, one would first hear the crack of the bullet passing overhead, having slowed to around Mach 2, so giving a sonic boom. The range was 300m, so about 3/4 second later would come the much quieter report of the actual discharge. Should one stick one's head above the parapet as the trigger is pulled, one may see the flash , and never get to hear the bang.

I am indebted to bignosemac for the pointer to the explanation of the Combined Cycle Gas Turbine, a very efficient upscale version of my condensing combi boiler at home. That row of towers does indeed simply cool the Thames water, the final coolant, to a temperature below that required to poach salmon. Apparently, the flames were fanned by the wind, and spread because of that. Had the fire broken out further down the line, the damage would have been less, but the use of such flammable materials in construction will be the topic of debate in the boardroom. It does not look as though the damage, though significant, will be difficult to fix.

Having seen the report on BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page)'s 10.00pm news, and having seen the damage and the remaining towers, it looks even less bad. It seems that three of the cooling modules have been destroyed, but they do not look to be particularly full of hi-tech stuff - merely a mechanism for pouring the warm water thrugh a cooling draught of air, with a fan moving at a leisurely pace.

This is no place for speculation as to the causes, so here goes. There is no fuel in those towers, there is a flow of water within them, and there are minimal electrical systems. The fans will need lubrication. It is next to impossible to have an escape of gas cause this fire, so what else? A seized motor in the fan may be the answer, but isn't likely. A poor unfortunate trout stuck in the intake (sorry, thetrout) may have deprived the tower of the cooling water required, or there may have been a discarded cigarette butt, something that Four Track, Now! has had an alibi for since 12 May 1991, when tobacco and I underwent a "conscious uncoupling" (thanks, Gladys).

Using wood in the construction of something designed to handle heat suggests to my cynical mind that either:
a) It looks good on the green credentials front (don't get me wrong - CCGT (Combined Cycle Gas Turbine) is as green as we have at the moment). Having three wooden mini-cooling towers go up in smoke is note so bad as having a 50-tonne wind turbine (containing 2 tonnes of Neodmyium, a major cause of the smog in China) crash to the ground on top of the Green party councillor who fought so hard to have 500 tonnes of concrete per turbine sunk into some convenient beauty spot. Sadly, the latter instance never happens, as Green councillors, as well as all the London based grandees who think that industrialising the countryside might help, never stand within 400 metres of a wind tower, so following the advice given by the manufacturers.

Sorry, I got a bit ranty and distracted, so here is:

b) It was a cheaper option than doing it properly, suggesting that it was meant for a finite period of Thames cooling. As it is well into its second decade, of perhaps three, the cost of repair against the capital cost of the next solution, minus the subsidy, may decide the end result. As the subsidy for CCGT generated electricity is lower than that for solar, biomass, wind (both on and off-shore)and nuclear, there may be a discussion, but I reckon it will be back on line in no time at all. But without the Ikea wood surround.
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« Reply #34 on: October 21, 2014, 00:01:44 »


Cognoscenti of cooling tower fires may remember the one on top of Tower 42 (the former NatWest Tower in the City). At 650 ft high it spread an immense plume of smoke but with very limited internal damage.

Apparently a plumber - not Connex's best olive - tried brazing a joint onto a big cooling tower's  plastic shell!

Forced or induced draught (with a fan) towers are usually quite low with plastic packing to increase water/air contact area. Wood or plastic shells are preferred to ferrous materials because of legionella infestation. They are often left dry to discourage the bugs from infesting. They burn nicely.

OTC

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TonyK
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« Reply #35 on: October 21, 2014, 07:24:30 »

Spoken like an accomplished arsonist, OTC!
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Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #36 on: October 21, 2014, 11:27:52 »

From the BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Quote
Didcot B power station fire: Electrical fault probe


The fire began in a cooling tower and spread to three others because of strong winds

An electrical fault could be to blame for a huge fire at Didcot B power station, the fire service has said.

Nathan Travis, deputy chief fire officer at Oxfordshire Fire and Rescue, said they were focusing their investigation on a fault in one of the station's cooling fans.

The blaze on Sunday evening has resulted in half of the station being "non-operational" indefinitely.

Owner RWE npower said it was not known how long the closure would be in place.

At its height, 25 fire engines and about 100 firefighters tackled the blaze, which began in a cooling tower and spread to three others because of strong winds.
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stuving
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« Reply #37 on: October 21, 2014, 12:13:37 »

An electrical fault could be to blame for a huge fire at Didcot B power station, the fire service has said.

Nathan Travis, deputy chief fire officer at Oxfordshire Fire and Rescue, said they were focusing their investigation on a fault in one of the station's cooling fans.

The blaze on Sunday evening has resulted in half of the station being "non-operational" indefinitely.

Owner RWE npower said it was not known how long the closure would be in place.

At its height, 25 fire engines and about 100 firefighters tackled the blaze, which began in a cooling tower and spread to three others because of strong winds.

I can think of a better question to ask.

This is the outer, flammable, casing of what is essentially a very big sprinkler system. I comes complete with pumps, remotely operated valves, and a handy supply of water. In operation the water comes in below the exhaust tube at the top, but it does not need a lot of extra pipes and valves to pour water down the walls from the top. Sources of fire such as motor faults do happen, whatever you do to prevent them. So why not?
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rower40
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« Reply #38 on: October 21, 2014, 12:34:14 »

Probably no effect on rail services tomorrow, then, but still worrying.
BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) News photos, Google Maps, a ruler and a calculator (and ignoring the edict never to scale from drawings!) suggest that the fire was over a mile from the Thames Valley Signalling Centre.
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TonyK
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« Reply #39 on: October 21, 2014, 18:54:47 »


I can think of a better question to ask.

This is the outer, flammable, casing of what is essentially a very big sprinkler system. I comes complete with pumps, remotely operated valves, and a handy supply of water. In operation the water comes in below the exhaust tube at the top, but it does not need a lot of extra pipes and valves to pour water down the walls from the top. Sources of fire such as motor faults do happen, whatever you do to prevent them. So why not?


I have a feeling that this is exactly the question that will be debated at the inquest board meeting. Someone will say it is a one-off, others will say no it isn't. The cost of the installation versus loss of output and repair will be the deciding factor - men in suits with calculators will have the final say, not men in hard hats and hi-vis.
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« Reply #40 on: October 22, 2014, 11:19:31 »

Long live the "Bean Counters" you can't have people in Hi Vis Vests making decisions.
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stuving
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« Reply #41 on: October 29, 2014, 18:25:46 »

Welcome back, Module 5 at Didcot B.

This BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) report starts badly - is that really smoke that's gushing out?
Quote
29 October 2014 Last updated at 10:03

Didcot B power station generating again after fire


Smoke started gushing from the unit once it was fully switched on

Part of Didcot B Power Station is generating electricity again after a switch-on operation likened to starting up the Starship Enterprise.

It is understood the unit will produce about 350MW - roughly half its normal capacity of around 700MW.

Station manager Neil Scott said the switch-on began on Tuesday and was not simply a case of flicking a switch.

On Tuesday, National Grid warned that its capacity to supply electricity this winter would be at a seven-year low.

Mr Scott said it involved a "massive" operation which he compared to starting the fictional Star Trek spaceship.

"It's a bit like Starship Enterprise if anything - it's massive technology and computer systems, and control systems," he said.

He also said it involved "years of experience and knowledge" from its staff.

The Didcot B blaze on 19 October was among the closures and generator breakdowns which have contributed to problems.

At its height, 25 fire engines and about 100 firefighters tackled the fire, which started in a cooling tower.

The plant's other unit has continued to operate normally.

For the foreseeable future the plant is expected to provide about three quarters of its full power capacity.

That is 1 to 1.1GW of power compared to its full capacity of just under 1.4GW.

You may prefer this IET (Intercity Express Train) report, which has a higher factual content.

I'd been expecting it to come back with a bit more power than that. After all, the coolers only reduce the secondary cooling water temperature a bit before putting it back in the Thames, and it's not high summer. Maybe the Thames is still relatively warm this year.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2014, 20:15:36 by stuving » Logged
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« Reply #42 on: October 29, 2014, 19:55:05 »

Welcome back, Module 5 at Didcot B.

You may prefer this IET (Intercity Express Train) report, which has a higher factual content.

I'd been expecting it to come back with a bit more power than that. After all, the coolers only reduce the secondary cooling water temperature a bit before putting it back in the Thames, and it's not high summer. Maybe the Thames is still relatively warm this year.

The URL doesn't work, this might http://eandt.theiet.org/news/2014/oct/didcot-fire.cfm?utm_source=web&utm_medium=homepage&utm_campaign=news

The Environment Agency may well have placed a limit on the temperature rise of the River Thames, the river will still be quite warm this time of year we have not had any frosts and the ground will is still be getting some solar gain, it may be the output can be increased in a few weeks when the ground temp drops
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« Reply #43 on: October 29, 2014, 20:26:38 »

The URL doesn't work, this might http://eandt.theiet.org/news/2014/oct/didcot-fire.cfm?utm_source=web&utm_medium=homepage&utm_campaign=news

The Environment Agency may well have placed a limit on the temperature rise of the River Thames, the river will still be quite warm this time of year we have not had any frosts and the ground will is still be getting some solar gain, it may be the output can be increased in a few weeks when the ground temp drops
Sorry, I forgot my usual test of the link. Note the site may demand (free) registration.

The text does say an increase in power is possible later, though not why. And the EA certainly do place limits on outlet temperatures, and there are probably several limits on temperature, rises, etc.
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TonyK
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« Reply #44 on: October 29, 2014, 21:20:19 »

Welcome back, Module 5 at Didcot B.

This BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) report starts badly - is that really smoke that's gushing out?
Quote
29 October 2014 Last updated at 10:03

Didcot B power station generating again after fire


Station manager Neil Scott said the switch-on began on Tuesday and was not simply a case of flicking a switch.

Mr Scott said it involved a "massive" operation which he compared to starting the fictional Star Trek spaceship.

"It's a bit like Starship Enterprise if anything - it's massive technology and computer systems, and control systems," he said.


You may prefer this IET (Intercity Express Train) report, which has a higher factual content.


Naw,I'll stick with the dilithium crystal version. Ye canna beat the laws o' physics!


The Environment Agency may well have placed a limit on the temperature rise of the River Thames, the river will still be quite warm this time of year we have not had any frosts and the ground will is still be getting some solar gain, it may be the output can be increased in a few weeks when the ground temp drops

The relatively low rainfall will have kept the flow down, too.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2014, 21:25:33 by Four Track, Now! » Logged

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