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Author Topic: Siemens powers trucks like trams with overhead wires  (Read 11431 times)
broadgage
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« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2017, 03:19:17 pm »

This is how it was done, a century ago.http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2009/07/electric-road-trains-in-germany-1901-1950.html
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2017, 07:38:59 pm »

Those are more like conventional trolley buses as used today, at least in their current pick-up arrangements. The ones combining electric power with horses are interesting – an early hybrid system!
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stuving
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« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2018, 11:11:58 am »

Here's some competition for Siemens from a bunch of Swedes - using ground pick-up. Very much a demonstration activity at the moment, with only one vehicle and the 1.2 km of road conveniently close to Stockholm Arlanda airport. The idea is keep an all-electric vehicle's battery charged up so it can do short trips away from main roads (this from Energy Live News):
Quote


The world’s first road able to directly charge electric vehicles (EVs) has officially opened in Sweden.

Around 1.2 miles of electric rail has been embedded in a public road near Stockholm – it aims to solve the problem of having to keep electric vehicles charged up and is expected to enable EVs to use smaller batteries, reducing costs.

It works by using a movable arm attached to the bottom of a vehicle to receive energy from two tracks of rail in the road, much like a Scalextric track.

The infrastructure costs around €1 million (£860,000) per kilometre and calculates vehicles’ energy consumption, enabling electricity costs to be debited per vehicle and user.

Both current vehicles and roadways could be adapted to take advantage of the technology.

Hans Säll, CEO (Chief Executive Officer) of the eRoadArlanda consortium behind the project, said: “If we electrify 20,000 kilometres of highways that will definitely be enough.

“The distance between two highways is never more than 45 kilometres and electric cars can already travel that distance without needing to be recharged. Some believe it would be enough to electrify 5,000 kilometres.”

This is all very reminiscent of trams, which had three main systems of feeding - overhead (trolley), underground (conduit), and switched surface contact. In the end overhead was cheaper to build and maintain, partly because of the dirt and water than hangs about at ground level, and partly because the rails get in the way of any continuous power feed in the ground. For these new ones, with no rails, that second point isn't an issue, and if water/ice/snow cause problems then the Swedes should find out soon enough.
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eXPassenger
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« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2018, 11:25:07 am »

There is no comment on the voltage or overall power draw.  I imagine the voltage will be fairly low for safety reasons - even on a motorway there can be pedestrians and animals; and I hate to think of the required current if there is a convoy of HGVs.

On the other hand real life Scalextrix with racing trucks would be a blast,
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stuving
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« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2018, 11:47:50 am »

There is no comment on the voltage or overall power draw.  I imagine the voltage will be fairly low for safety reasons - even on a motorway there can be pedestrians and animals; and I hate to think of the required current if there is a convoy of HGVs.

On the other hand real life Scalextrix with racing trucks would be a blast,

In one article it says 200 kW - in which case either the volts, or the amps, or even both, must be worryingly high to keep in a hole in the road.
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mjones
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« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2018, 01:11:24 pm »

I understand that the power rail voltage is 750V, but the rail is built in short sections that are electrified only when a vehicle is passing, greatly reducing the risk to other road users.

It is an Alstom system based on a similar system already used for trams.
http://itsworldcongress2017.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Duprat.pdf


I also found this useful review which discusses different electric road technologies.
http://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:1046753/FULLTEXT01.pdf
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stuving
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« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2018, 01:34:40 pm »

I understand that the power rail voltage is 750V, but the rail is built in short sections that are electrified only when a vehicle is passing, greatly reducing the risk to other road users.

It is an Alstom system based on a similar system already used for trams.
http://itsworldcongress2017.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Duprat.pdf


I also found this useful review which discusses different electric road technologies.
http://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:1046753/FULLTEXT01.pdf


There are two Swedish ground pickup designs - one based on Alstom's tram system (cf. Bordeaux), with Volvo's trucks and at their test track, and the Arlanda one using the Elways conduit and a DAF truck on a public road. Both only switch on the power to short sections on demand, and need complicated feeding arrangement along the road to supply that efficiently. The Elways one is 800 VAC, rather than 750 VDC.
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martyjon
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« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2018, 03:56:41 pm »

Take a look at this ;-

https://f1.media.brightcove.com/12/1813624294001/1813624294001_5537341264001_5537335049001.mp4?pubId=1813624294001&videoId=5537335049001
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stuving
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« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2021, 05:08:40 pm »

This Siemens eHighway is still advancing, if only by baby steps. The German federal government is making encouraging noises, but Siemens have only just opened the third trail road systems and that (between Kuppenheim and Gaggenau) is only about 5 km long!

But today's Sunday Times was reporting that they had been putting a concrete proposal to our government, and it was in other papers last month when Innovate UK (United Kingdom) let a study contract to a consortium including Siemens. It's not clear how or if this fits into Innovate UK's routine grants competitions, and it may be separate (money from DfT» (Department for Transport - about) direct but adminstered by IUK).

it was announced from DfT, and also by consortium leader Costain:
Quote
Green light for path to UK’s first ‘electric motorway’
27 July 2021

• Through Innovate UK, the Department for Transport has commissioned a Costain led consortium to assess the economic and technical potential of the UK’s first ‘eHighway’

• The study is part of the UK government’s plan to reach zero net emissions for heavy road freight

• It aims to demonstrate the technology is ready for a national roll-out

The Department for Transport has awarded funding through Innovate UK to a consortium to lead the UK’s first ever study on the electrification of long-range trucks with dynamic charging, using overhead wires on motorways.   

The study is part of the £20m put aside for zero emission road freight trials under the recently announced Transport Decarbonisation Plan (TDP) and was awarded based on the Costain led consortium expertise in sustainable transport. It includes Siemens Mobility, Scania, The Centre for Sustainable Road Freight (Cambridge University and Heriot-Watt University), ARUP, Milne Research, SPL Powerlines, CI Planning, BOX ENERGI and Possible.
...
The consortium has proposed an ‘electric road system’, using the Siemens Mobility ‘eHighway’ technology, as the fastest, lowest carbon and most cost-effective route to decarbonising our road freight industry and delivering cleaner air. The nine-month study kicks off this month and is hoped to be the forerunner of a scheme that aims to see the UK’s major roads served by overhead lines by the 2030s. These eHighways allow specially adapted trucks to attach to the overhead wires and run using the electricity, like rail and trolley-bus systems. The trucks come equipped with a battery that charges while they are in motion so they can detach to both overtake vehicles and reach their destination with zero emissions from start to finish. 

Consortium members Siemens Mobility, Scania and SPL have previously trialled smaller electric road systems in Germany and Sweden, with this UK initiative being the first in the world to investigate deploying it at a much larger scale. The project will look at electrifying at least 30km (19 miles) of the M180 as the pilot, linking Immingham Port with the logistics hubs of Doncaster and its airport. The partners plan to take the lessons learned from Europe, and provide technical, economic, and environmental recommendations for installing a proof-of-concept system with a bigger demonstration fleet. 

A fully operational electric road system across the UK would be expected to create tens of thousands of jobs across a range of green industries, with around 200,000 new electric trucks needing to be built over a 10–15-year period. This will also provide an opportunity to completely revamp the UK truck manufacturing industry and its supply chains, futureproofing it by accelerating fleet digitalisation; a key lesson learned across the industry as it recovers from the 2020 pandemic’s disruption. 

Research by the consortium has even found that initial investments into new vehicles by operators could be recouped within 18 months, due to lower energy costs, and the electrification infrastructure would pay back investors in 15 years. ...

There other things from Innovate UK too: a load of other grants, including some on rail (FOAK 2021), and their take on how transport needs to change, UK Transport Vision 2050.
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broadgage
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« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2021, 08:42:15 pm »

Even with safety precautions, I remain very doubtful about anything involving a lethal voltage at low level. Conductor rail powered railways are bad enough, but on public roads ! it seems unlikely. And of course a vehicle powered by any form of conductor rail needs very accurate steering, presumably automatic.

Overhead wires seem more sensible, after all trolley buses used this system for many years. A vehicle powered thus can be steered as normal, within certain limits. The main drawback of trolley bus type power supply is de-wirement. Historically when this occurred, the driver had to leave the cab and replace the current collectors on the wires, generally by pulling on strings or by use of a long bamboo pole carried for the purpose. These days it can be automated.

BTW (by the way), lighting on trolley buses is an old example of a restrictive practice to keep up profits. The lights were supplied via a motor generator set at a safe reduced voltage. 35 volts was used, not used for anything else and thereby ensuring ongoing sales of special 35 volt lamps.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
Reading General
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« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2021, 09:16:51 pm »

Modern trolleybuses only tend to de-wire through driver error rather than equipment fault, not setting direction properly or moving too quickly through a junction. Upon dewirement, on some vehicles the poles on top of the vehicle can immediately drop to the roof to avoid damaging overhead. Indeed many dewirement photos I’ve seen on the Reading system appeared to be wrong route set at a junction, meaning the driver was on or off power at wrong moment when passing through the switch.
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stuving
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« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2021, 10:16:01 pm »

The Siemens system being proposed uses two small pantographs, so even with the wires spaced well out towards the sides of the vehicle it will need to keep station in its lane. Of course that's not a big deal these days, with or without a driver doing something. If there's any problem with that, or at each end of the wired bit and at junctions if there are any, the pans drop and traction relies on batteries (or supercapacitors). By all accounts it's developed far enough to be worth a proper trial, at least.
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4064ReadingAbbey
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« Reply #27 on: August 10, 2021, 03:30:21 pm »

Attached is a photograph I took (while my wife was driving  Smiley ) in May 2019 of a test length being constructed on the A1 near Lübeck. The autobahn is normally three lanes but the nearside lane was closed while the wires being put up.

The published idea is to reduce the quantity of diesel fuel being used for goods transport. As Germany is also a transit country which adds to the number of heavy vehicles the road freight traffic levels have to be seen to be believed. By electrifying the trunk haul the idea is to reduce overall emission levels, leaving the HGVs with their diesel engines for off-motorway work and for working around obstructions.

There is no intention - as yet - of putting the wires up on other types of road as the design, planning and installation issues are too great. The advantage of wiring autobahnen is that the road design is consistent and allows a technical solution based on standardised components to be used.

« Last Edit: August 10, 2021, 03:50:04 pm by 4064ReadingAbbey » Logged
broadgage
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« Reply #28 on: August 10, 2021, 08:02:40 pm »

I am impressed  Smiley

Although this is a small scale trial, it is an actual installation on an actual public road that remains in use.
A considerable step forward if compared to trials on a dedicated test route, and an even greater step forward over simulations and paper studies.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2021, 08:29:05 pm by broadgage » Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
stuving
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« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2021, 11:23:15 pm »

I am impressed  Smiley

Although this is a small scale trial, it is an actual installation on an actual public road that remains in use.
A considerable step forward if compared to trials on a dedicated test route, and an even greater step forward over simulations and paper studies.

In some ways that's so - the original post on this thread was in 2014, when the Elisa real-world (or real-road) trials in Germany were imminent. But while the first trail started in June 2016, that was in Sweden (2 km near Stockholm airport), and appears to have been segregated by a wall. The initial installation in Germany, on the A5 near Frankfurt airport, only opened in May 2019, and the second one, on the A1 near Lubeck, in 2020 (both are 10 km long).

And then the third one, as reported above, on the B462 in Baden-Wurtenberg, opened in June 2021. This is not an autobahn, so less straight, though only 3.4 km (see this report for details). There is also a mile (each way) in Los Angeles, installed in 2017, which I've not heard of since.
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