Thousands of passengers dodging fares in Bristol area every day (Bristol Post)

[whole diary]

[sprinterguard]

Some people are genuinely soul destroyed when you sell them their ^1.50 fare from Stapleton Road to Lawrence Hill that they've shuffled to the front to avoid.

A decent ATE and guard combo can usually do a pretty good job on those trains. We can't get everyone and I don't think we can be expected to either; we can only do our best .

[eightf48544]

Does TFL^▸ (Transport for London) have much problem with vandalism of validators?

More CCTV^▸ (Closed Circuit Tele Vision) at TFL stations probably helps keep vandalism of ticket machines and validators down.

Also more staff most of the time trains are running e.g. 23:30 at Eastcote barriers working!

However, I still say until there is a comprehensive census of passsenger number on the line it will be extremely difficult to find a viable solution.

A number have been mentioned in this thread but they are all kite flying without the figures.

Also any solutions which work for this line could be rolled out for other lines after a similar census.

[JayMac]

A decent ATE and guard combo can usually do a pretty good job on those trains. We can't get everyone and I don't think we can be expected to either; we can only do our best .

As I said in my post with the picture of the queue, it's not untypical. My longest queueing time has been 20 minutes, leaving me just 3 minutes spare to catch a connection. The guards and ATEs do a fantastic job, but regularly having 30+ passengers needing to queue after alighting from inbound AM services is unacceptable. Those that should be doing better are the managers - in working to resolve the problem.

[Chris from Nailsea]

An update, from the Western Daily Press:

Passenger upset at free rail travel

A train passenger told yesterday how he has commuted to work for years without a ticket ^ because there is no way of buying one.

Graphic designer Phil Green, 52, travels from a sleepy branch line station where there is no ticket machine and no inspectors on the train.

He simply walks on at Severn Beach in south Gloucestershire and walks off unchallenged when he arrives at work in Bristol.

A single ticket costs as little as ^2, which Mr Green would be happy to pay if there was a means of buying one.

The line ^ used by more than one million passengers a year ^ is subsidised by the taxpayer and Mr Green believes valuable revenue is being lost.

He fears the service could be axed because ticket sales are so low.

In a letter to operator First Great Western, he wrote: "I believe this is a needed service for a rural community.

"Surely when they do the figures it looks like the train is hardly ever used."

First Great Western said it has recruited more than 20 additional ticket inspectors to crack down on fare dodgers in the Bristol area.

A spokesman said: "It is unfair that those passengers who choose not to pay subsidise those who do not."

[JayMac]

Nice quote there from FGW^▸ (First Great Western) totally missing the point. This isn't about people choosing not to pay. 

[Brucey]

1. Has anyone thought of putting simple TVMs^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) onto Severn Beach line trains - lock-clamped to a pillar, with four buttons for single and return, adult and child, exact fare only, cash. 

I saw this in Italy recently.  Tickets purchased at a tabbachi, hotel, transport office etc cost ^1.30.  In addition the buses, trains and trolleybuses had very basic ticket vending machines offering the same ticket for ^1.50 to encourage the purchase in advance.  Passengers then validate the ticket in a second machine to prevent re-use. Machines were very sturdy looking.

The system seemed to work well with most people having validated tickets when the inspectors boarded, except one or two who were issued with ^150 fines.

The problem of such a system on the Severn Beach Line is that dedicated rolling stock would be required.  Otherwise there could be situations where the units with the machines end up in Penzance or elsewhere.

[grahame]

The problem of such a system on the Severn Beach Line is that dedicated rolling stock would be required.  Otherwise there could be situations where the units with the machines end up in Penzance or elsewhere.

I was thinking of a system in which they were portable machines / bolted on to the diagrammed trains each night, perhaps?   But I'm not really informed enough to know whether such a system would work ...

[JayMac]

Problem is, the diagrammed units don't stay exclusively on the Severn Beach Line and then there's the semi-regular late replacement of a diagrammed unit. 

[Red Squirrel]

Something remarkable happened to me last Saturday: I took the kids to town (Montpelier to Temple Meads), and was able to buy my ticket on the train! This is the first time this has happened to me for months; even on very quiet trains there has been no sign of the guard. It was a joy this time to be able to simply leave Temple Meads without having to join the queue BNM has referred to.

On the way home we were early for the 18.03, so went to Bonaparte's for a pint and a J2O (split two ways; I'm not made of money!); when the Severn Beach train came in I watched and saw that all the passengers again passed straight out, implying that they'd been able to buy tickets on the train too.

Maybe someone's listening?

[John R]

Taking an extremely simplistic view, there are two types of guards. Those that do bother to try and sell tickets and those who don't.  I appreciate that the short distance between stops on the Severn Beach line makes things difficult, but I'm basing my theory on observations between Nailsea and Bristol, where some guards just stay in the rear cab despite several people having boarded at Nailsea. I've seen a comment on the forum about a similar experience on the TransWilts service when again there is adequate time to check and sell tickets.

What I don't understand is how management don't have MI to spot this and take appropriate action. It can't be that difficult to work out an average take for a particular journey or roster and then challenge guards that consistently under-deliver. Of course, there will be significant variation from day to day, and adjustments would need to be made when there is a second person on board, but over a period someone producing half of the expected revenue should be easy to spot. Over a year the loss per guard could be substantial.




 

[JayMac]

Severn Beach Line at busy times doesn't just have Conductors though. It also has an Assistant Ticket Examiner whose sole job is to sell tickets.

The services the ATEs cover have been steadily increasing and they are to be seen at weekends as well.

The major problem remains week day AM peak inbound. Even with an ATE and Conductor, in full ticket selling mode, not everyone can be sold a ticket, leaving upwards of two dozen people queueing at the gateline.

A lesser issue, but still significant in terms of lost revenue I suspect, is quieter services with just a Conductor aboard, either not selling, or not getting to everyone making shorter intermediate journeys. Even here I've noticed much more improvement with Conductors doing their level best to sell to/check as many passengers as possible. However, it has to be remembered that a Conductor's revenue duties come after; safety of the train, safety of passengers, safety of themselves, timekeeping, door operation and despatch.

[Red Squirrel]

Taking an extremely simplistic view, there are two types of guards. Those that do bother to try and sell tickets and those who don't.  I appreciate that the short distance between stops on the Severn Beach line makes things difficult, but I'm basing my theory on observations between Nailsea and Bristol, where some guards just stay in the rear cab despite several people having boarded at Nailsea. I've seen a comment on the forum about a similar experience on the TransWilts service when again there is adequate time to check and sell tickets.

What I don't understand is how management don't have MI to spot this and take appropriate action. It can't be that difficult to work out an average take for a particular journey or roster and then challenge guards that consistently under-deliver. Of course, there will be significant variation from day to day, and adjustments would need to be made when there is a second person on board, but over a period someone producing half of the expected revenue should be easy to spot. Over a year the loss per guard could be substantial.
 

This reminds me of what I believe is known as 'dipping' on the buses, whereby a driver deliberately catches up with the bus in front so that it takes all waiting passengers and thus its driver (and the driver of the bus behind) does all the work. I understand that this is considered a serious disciplinary matter.

In the case of pay trains, isn't the guard doing something similar by passing the work on to the platform staff? Do they belong to different unions?

[JayMac]

I feel I have to make it clear that this isn't, as far as I'm concerned, an issue of on train staff not selling tickets.

On the Severn Beach Line I see almost nothing but their best efforts in getting to as many people as possible.

It's the sheer number of passengers using the line now, at least a 100%+ increase since First took over from Wessex, that is the issue. And 100%+ is being generous. Clifton Down station has seen annual passenger usage increase from 153,000 in 2005/06 to 522,000 in 2012/13. That's a near 350% increase.

The onboard staff can only do so much. It's their bosses who need to be looking at ways to ensure everyone pays for their journey. And looking at ways to stop the absurdity of having to queue for upwards of 20 minutes at Bristol Temple Meads to pay their fare so as to be able to exit the station or continue their journey.

If I was a semi regular traveller (for whom a Season wouldn't be worthwhile) needing to get to a location between Lawrence Hill and Bristol TM^‡(resolve), I know where I'd be alighting...

I'm not advocating fare dodging, but say you need to get, a couple of times a week, from your home near Clifton Down to a location equidistant between Lawrence Hill and Bristol TM. You have the bus option at ^3 or ^4 per round trip, or the train option at ^2 per return journey. However, if you take the train option and have learnt through experience that you may be queueing for sometime at Bristol TM versus alighting at Lawrence Hill and not having had the opportunity to pay, what would you do? Even if you have to pay on your journey home on the train, you'll only be paying ^1.50, unless you are unconscionably honest and say you need a Return to include your morning journey.

I know someone living near Clifton Down station for whom this is just such a scenario. Doesn't need a Season ticket due to irregular travel patterns, but does occasionally need to be in a location between Bristol TM and Lawrence Hill. Needless to say, if given the opportunity to buy on board, he'll travel to Bristol TM. If not, he'll alight at Lawrence Hill.

[John R]

That may be the case, but in my experience there are train staff who do stay in the rear cab when they could be in a more passenger facing and revenue positive role. The Severn Beach line is difficult given the frequency of the stops, but they do it on other lines where there is a clear period between station stops.

Being slightly pedantic, it's a near 250% increase, but that doesn't take away from the remarkable growth. I do hope the 4 tracking enables a half hourly service to be introduced in the next few years. With more office space currently being constructed in the Temple Quay locality, and more positive signs as to redevelopment of the old diesel depot site, demand will only grow, given an adequate service and capacity.

[Chris from Nailsea]

An update, from the Bristol Post:

Reader's letter: We know the true picture of rail travel



Following your story about fare evasion on the Severn Beach Line (Bristol Post August 21) we would like to reassure everyone that the West of England councils work closely with the Severnside Community Rail Partnership to conduct twice yearly passenger counts recording every passenger who uses a train, not just those who pay.

The latest count, carried out in June this year, shows 5,000 passengers a day. We will be carrying out a further passenger count in September.

The figures are now recognised by the Department for Transport and supplement the data generated by the industry data base that records tickets sales by route. This means that we are using these, higher, passenger figures for our work to build the various MetroWest business cases that will bring improvements to our local rail network, showing the true picture of local rail travel.

First Great Western has also recently introduced 15 additional assistant ticket examiners in the Central Region which covers all stations in Bristol. These ticket examiners have a remit to pay particular attention to the Severn Beach route.

We are, of course, also putting pressure on First Great Western to make progress on rail smart tickets, in the same way First Bus have done locally, as this will help gather data and integrate with bus and MetroBus journeys. We have asked the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about), through the Great Western franchise consultation, to include smart ticketing in the upcoming direct award.

Councillor Brian Allinson
Chair, West of England Joint Transport Board

Councillor Mark Bradshaw
Vice Chair, West of England Joint Transport Board