MTLS Fare Strike Confirmed

[whole diary]

[vacman]

Your entitled to your opinion, and so am I, my position hasn't changed, I will lose no sleep about reporting someone who BREAKS THE LAW!

People have no alternative and the railways should never have been privatised in the current form. How else do you suggest the public stand up to FGW^▸ (First Great Western)? Writing petitions on the PM's website which always receive stock responses? You're acting as if we're taking a leaf out of the Argentinians' book and are rioting over a few cancellations. The majority of the rolling stock, current infrastructure and staff training was paid for by the tax payers of Great Britain. How is it fair that services we rely on to get to work on time are ran by profiteering bastards who crowd us all into clapped out, poorly maintained rolling stock and charge us ridiculous amounts for the privilege? As a member of FGW staff I thought you would be the first to sympathise seeing as if appropriate services were provided you and your colleagues would get a great deal less flack from the travelling public. If there was a law stating that you had to go church would you follow it? What about one where you had to hop around on one leg on a Thursday? Both are clearly unfair laws but should you follow them just because they are laws? The law isn't always right and the government are very selective about which ones they enforce. If the law was enforced to the letter banks wouldn't be able to overcharge customers for going overdrawn, gangs of chavs wouldn't terrorise hard working people and the world would  be a much better place. However you would regularly be shooting at welshmen with a crossbow for penetrating the city walls. The Cardiff to Portsmouth service would certainly become interesting!

So basicly your saying that having to pay for a rail journey is an "unfair" law? that can be compared to having to hop around on one leg on a thursday? don't talk crap, fare evasion is both fraud and theft and it is wrong in ANY circumstances.

[grahame]

So basicly your saying that having to pay for a rail journey is an "unfair" law? that can be compared to having to hop around on one leg on a thursday? don't talk crap, fare evasion is both fraud and theft and it is wrong in ANY circumstances.

The forum software we uses here splits long subjects into pages of posts, so some comments I made earlier this morning have got loat back on the previous page.  I think they bear repeating here.

... it may seem a little ironic for me to be following up with a suggestion that now that views have been aired and positions understood, we agreed to differ and move on.  We have a greater understanding of each other's positions, and that's no bad thing.  We have aired the arguments in public, and again that's good as it helps readers who have not posted to be informed about the various views represented here, and wider.

Your various views differ, strongly, on this. They have been stated several times over and I don't think you're going to change each other's opinions. So - even though it will leave the board a little quieter - let's move on to discuss other topics for the moment, eh?

Thanks!

-- Graham

[dog box]

Just looking at MTLS^▸ (More Train Less Strain) WEBSITE and since when has FGW^▸ (First Great Western) been running Japanese trains complete with Passengers to match?? in fact i think only 1 possibly 2 pictures on the site are actually of FGW Trains

[Chris from Nailsea]

... but since when has the likes of the 'tabloid press' allowed the facts to get in the way of a good headline??? 

[dog box]

... but since when has the likes of the 'tabloid press' allowed the facts to get in the way of a good headline??? 

very true!!!!!!!

[grahame]

Just looking at MTLS^▸ (More Train Less Strain) WEBSITE and since when has FGW^▸ (First Great Western) been running Japanese trains complete with Passengers to match?? in fact i think only 1 possibly 2 pictures on the site are actually of FGW Trains

I feel people really shoot themselves in the foot doing things like that ...

http://www.savethetrain.org.uk/update/index.html
or permalink to the same page:
http://www.savethetrain.org.uk/melkshamrailway/240_On_truthfully_advertising_the_case.html

[dog box]

Thanks to a good friend i can now bring you identities of all of the crowded trains as featured on the MLTS web site...photo 1 is a Silverlink class 321, Photo 2 is a South Eastern Class 376, Photo 3 Thameslink Mainline Class 319, Photo 4 is a Fgw class 150.and then we have The Japanese ram em in train, what appears to be The Bangalore Express and the fgw 150 picture repeated again.

[Chris from Nailsea]

erm ... I don't think the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) 150 has grandfather rights to stop at Bangalore ... ?   

[Superwang]

Try doing a fares strike when travelling on an airline or a ship/ferry etc...........it just does not happen because it is a no ticket = no travel procedure.

FGW^▸ (First Great Western) is not a charity so it cannot tolerate freeloaders travelling or protesting on its services, as it is not fair to other fare paying travellers either commuters, business or pleasure travellers.

Where was all this macho attitude, energy, aggression and protests when the railways were being privatised???.........not interest then were we?...........not even many MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament) could be bothered to make a proper effort to attend the transport debates in parliment at the time the railways bill was being read.

The Aslef and RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) unions warned and protested at the process but were silenced by the government accused of scaremongering and blocking progress and investment.

why don't you action protestors, focus your energy and anger towards the government and BUY a ticket, travel to London and protest to MPs about the state of the UKs^▸ (United Kingdom) railway NOT just FGW company operator?

Nah you will not bother because much of you protesters were Tory voters who wanted the railway privatised in the first place!!!!..............now you spend all your lives moaning at the wrong people!!

I rest my case

[Lee]

Nah you will not bother because much of you protesters were Tory voters who wanted the railway privatised in the first place!!!!..............now you spend all your lives moaning at the wrong people!!

I rest my case

Before you do, Superwang, could I draw your attention to a conversation between 12hoursunday and myself a while back, after he expressed a similiar view? :

Genuine question for you, 12hoursunday, so dont bite my head off :

I notice from your profile that your website is listed as "rmt union." In the past the RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) has been very supportive of MTLS^▸ (More Train Less Strain) and their aims.

Are your views purely personal, or do they reflect official RMT policy?

By the way, dont take me asking as a criticism of the union or its views. I regularly include links to the RMT Bristol Rail Branch website (along with links to many other groups/organisations), as part of our attempts to provide a balanced cross-section of views.

Lee 
The postings I post are the views of myself however there have been others on here that I think feel the same or have similar views to mine Your right it what you say re the RMT and their association with MTLS however I am unsure if they have or would support the breaking of the law. Whether your the jumped little hoodie sneaking a ride from Oldfield Park to Keynsham or a group of grown up's frustrated over what has become of British Railways ( it ain't only happening in this neck of the woods you know) it is unlawful to a travel or attempt to travel on the railway network without buying a ticket. Doing so only puts futher pressure on the rail staff you say you support and feel sorry for.

MTLS should should take a long look at what they intend to do to try to make train companies change their minds or maybe even influence them into making changes into what they do now, they are acting in a  unprofessional and irresponsible manner by asking passengers to break the law on-mass. Someone may end up with egg on their chin, and it won't be Firstgroup!

Debate the issues and put your points across by all means, but bear in mind that several MTLS supporters are most certainly not Tories!

[vacman]

Try doing a fares strike when travelling on an airline or a ship/ferry etc...........it just does not happen because it is a no ticket = no travel procedure.

FGW^▸ (First Great Western) is not a charity so it cannot tolerate freeloaders travelling or protesting on its services, as it is not fair to other fare paying travellers either commuters, business or pleasure travellers.

Where was all this macho attitude, energy, aggression and protests when the railways were being privatised???.........not interest then were we?...........not even many MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament) could be bothered to make a proper effort to attend the transport debates in parliment at the time the railways bill was being read.

The Aslef and RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) unions warned and protested at the process but were silenced by the government accused of scaremongering and blocking progress and investment.

why don't you action protestors, focus your energy and anger towards the government and BUY a ticket, travel to London and protest to MPs about the state of the UKs^▸ (United Kingdom) railway NOT just FGW company operator?

Nah you will not bother because much of you protesters were Tory voters who wanted the railway privatised in the first place!!!!..............now you spend all your lives moaning at the wrong people!!

I rest my case

Well said!!!!

[Lee]

Debate the issues and put your points across by all means, but bear in mind that several MTLS^▸ (More Train Less Strain) supporters are most certainly not Tories!

I would also draw your attention to the suggestion made by grahame :

The forum software we uses here splits long subjects into pages of posts, so some comments I made earlier this morning have got loat back on the previous page.  I think they bear repeating here.

... it may seem a little ironic for me to be following up with a suggestion that now that views have been aired and positions understood, we agreed to differ and move on.  We have a greater understanding of each other's positions, and that's no bad thing.  We have aired the arguments in public, and again that's good as it helps readers who have not posted to be informed about the various views represented here, and wider.

Your various views differ, strongly, on this. They have been stated several times over and I don't think you're going to change each other's opinions. So - even though it will leave the board a little quieter - let's move on to discuss other topics for the moment, eh?

Thanks!

-- Graham

If we are to continue this debate, lets try and make sure we add something new to it. For example, a new MTLS-related debate, based on their statement released yesterday, has been started in the link below.
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=1506.msg9435#msg9435

[Doctor Gideon Ceefax]

Surely the solution is for the fare strikers to refuse politely to show a ticket, but give their correct name and address to any authorised ticket collector. That way when they are given a penalty fare, or unpaid fares notice for not having a ticket, instead of paying it, they can exercise their right to dispute it and remain within the law. Of course it may well then go to court, but if they do have a case, then they can debate it there.

Then let the lawyers on both sides debate the case, and let the courts deal with it rather than causing hassle for frontline staff or having riots on the platforms. No doubt the fare strike groups are aware and have researched all of the legal issues, and have appropriate people to defend their case, if members are taken to court.

A side effect being that, going down the this route would also mean the usual assorted bunch of ticketless miscreants and general human sewage who never pay and cause trouble for decent passengers and staff alike can't hide behind this 'political protest', as another excuse to bunk the train.

[dog box]

Surely the solution is for the fare strikers to refuse politely to show a ticket, but give their correct name and address to any authorised ticket collector. That way when they are given a penalty fare, or unpaid fares notice for not having a ticket, instead of paying it, they can exercise their right to dispute it and remain within the law. Of course it may well then go to court, but if they do have a case, then they can debate it there.

Then let the lawyers on both sides debate the case, and let the courts deal with it rather than causing hassle for frontline staff or having riots on the platforms. No doubt the fare strike groups are aware and have researched all of the legal issues, and have appropriate people to defend their case, if members are taken to court.

A side effect being that, going down the this route would also mean the usual assorted bunch of ticketless miscreants and general human sewage who never pay and cause trouble for decent passengers and staff alike can't hide behind this 'political protest', as another excuse to bunk the train.

Well said...........and welcome to the forum O mighty medical one!!!!!!!

[smokey]

Vacman is very active in defending the Train company over the issue of tickets and penalty fares, however fares are rising above inflation for an increasingly poor service.

If FGW^▸ (First Great Western) had been good performers there would be NO MTLS^▸ (More Train Less Strain), or indeed FGW coffee shop.

The best thing to do, if so minded, is to present a Fare Strike Ticket along with a valid Ticket or the Fare if buying ticket on the train, traveling from an unsataffed station.

A few years ago the Bank of England went nuts after a Art exhibition had a Painting of a ^5 note that was a very true likeness of the real thing, but was abour 6foot by 3foot in size.
I belive the artist ended up in court but was found not guilty as no crime was comitted as the Bank Notes then in use did not say COPYRIGHT, THEY DO THESE DAYS.

Sorry but I can't find the word copyright on any Rail Ticket I've ever seen.

Moreover if ANY crime is committed it's more like Embezzlement by FGW for taking Money for a Service that they fail to provide.