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Author Topic: Infrastructure problems in Thames Valley causing disruption elsewhere - ongoing, since Oct 2014  (Read 1240537 times)
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« Reply #2985 on: October 17, 2018, 12:28:15 »

Simon Calder has just been interviewed at Paddington and summed it up quite aptly - electrification - a project running years late, hundreds of millions of £ overspent - brand new (allegedly) high tech trains which simply don't seem to be up to it a year after their introduction, and the whole system collapsing for (probably) 24 hours and more due to one incident.

No evidence of any contingencies for customers, and even the suggestion of going via Waterloo this morning is scuppered by signal failures.

Overpriced, overcrowded, unreliable, uncaring, unfit for purpose.

The next time people ask themselves why people prefer travelling by car, or indeed virtually any alternative to the railways, remember last night and today.

That has come from decades of under investment. Very sad.

Certainly sad, and PARTIALY due to under investment.
Not entirely though IMO (in my opinion).
A great deal of money has been invested in electrification, without discernible gain for long distance passengers.
A great of money has been spent on the IETs (Intercity Express Train). It is not just me who considers that the new fleet represents a downgrade despite all the expenditure.

But this new fleet of high speed trains must be perfect ………………. they were spec'd by the DfT» (Department for Transport - about) after all the DfT has the passengers interest at heart  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #2986 on: October 17, 2018, 12:28:34 »

Simon Calder has just been interviewed at Paddington and summed it up quite aptly - electrification - a project running years late, hundreds of millions of £ overspent - brand new (allegedly) high tech trains which simply don't seem to be up to it a year after their introduction, and the whole system collapsing for (probably) 24 hours and more due to one incident.

No evidence of any contingencies for customers, and even the suggestion of going via Waterloo this morning is scuppered by signal failures.

Overpriced, overcrowded, unreliable, uncaring, unfit for purpose.

The next time people ask themselves why people prefer travelling by car, or indeed virtually any alternative to the railways, remember last night and today.


No contingency plan will be able to cater for the amount traffic that goes into Paddington during the peak.  Any contingency you do have will be totally swamped and will become dangerous.

The problem is the area where the overheads come down, it’s head span construction, all the overheads are held up across all four lines by wires. When the overheads are bought down on one line it brings them down on the other three as well.  
Any train will need the overhead wires removed and then the electric train that is stranded will need rescuing.

That said, the state of the infrastructure doesn’t help.  Headspan is a cheap form of electrification

I'm not talking about fleets of buses, GWR (Great Western Railway) can have a contingency plan which trains, empowers and informs their staff, and provides extra resources on the ground helping their customers constructively via all channels during times of extreme disruption.

For example - the GWR Help twitter page advertises  "We are Great Western Railway, here to help 24/7" - it patently isn't, as people were tweeting & asking questions from 0500 but not receiving responses until after 0700 and there was little or no activity visible in the interim - the whole effectiveness of Twitter relies on very swift responses.

As others have noted, announcements could be made on Tube trains too - I've had the experience of emerging into Paddington to find utter chaos on numerous occasions - if information had been given on the relevant Tube lines with suggested alternatives, this could be avoided and mitigate overcrowding.


These are basic things, they should be in place as a matter of course, it doesn't require a genius.
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« Reply #2987 on: October 17, 2018, 12:45:03 »

1T53, the 12:25 Paddington-Heathrow appears to be one of the first westbound services to have run; now approaching Heathrow.

The Carmarthen-Paddington arrived, and has gone through several identity changes, suggesting some debate on what it's going to do for its westbound working; currently suggesting 1B35, the 12:45 to Swansea.
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« Reply #2988 on: October 17, 2018, 12:52:22 »

Simon Calder has just been interviewed at Paddington and summed it up quite aptly - electrification - a project running years late, hundreds of millions of £ overspent - brand new (allegedly) high tech trains which simply don't seem to be up to it a year after their introduction, and the whole system collapsing for (probably) 24 hours and more due to one incident.

No evidence of any contingencies for customers, and even the suggestion of going via Waterloo this morning is scuppered by signal failures.

Overpriced, overcrowded, unreliable, uncaring, unfit for purpose.

The next time people ask themselves why people prefer travelling by car, or indeed virtually any alternative to the railways, remember last night and today.


No contingency plan will be able to cater for the amount traffic that goes into Paddington during the peak.  Any contingency you do have will be totally swamped and will become dangerous.

The problem is the area where the overheads come down, it’s head span construction, all the overheads are held up across all four lines by wires. When the overheads are bought down on one line it brings them down on the other three as well.  
Any train will need the overhead wires removed and then the electric train that is stranded will need rescuing.

That said, the state of the infrastructure doesn’t help.  Headspan is a cheap form of electrification

I'm not talking about fleets of buses, GWR (Great Western Railway) can have a contingency plan which trains, empowers and informs their staff, and provides extra resources on the ground helping their customers constructively via all channels during times of extreme disruption.

For example - the GWR Help twitter page advertises  "We are Great Western Railway, here to help 24/7" - it patently isn't, as people were tweeting & asking questions from 0500 but not receiving responses until after 0700 and there was little or no activity visible in the interim - the whole effectiveness of Twitter relies on very swift responses.

As others have noted, announcements could be made on Tube trains too - I've had the experience of emerging into Paddington to find utter chaos on numerous occasions - if information had been given on the relevant Tube lines with suggested alternatives, this could be avoided and mitigate overcrowding.


These are basic things, they should be in place as a matter of course, it doesn't require a genius.


The information is available to staff in terms of alternative routes into London. The problem is getting that information to the passenger or the way it is broadcast to the passenger.  One massive screen at stations would be handy rather than the small departures screens we’ve got, a screen where you’re not limited by the number of  characters you can use and information can be explained in a more user friendly manner.

You’ll always get some who don’t read information screens and you’ll always get some who won’t accept what they’ve been advised and expect something more straightforward and quicker.

Far point about the Underground.  Service information is broadcast at Reading and some train managers will give Tube updates so you’d think it would be a two way agreement.
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« Reply #2989 on: October 17, 2018, 13:10:29 »

But this new fleet of high speed trains must be perfect ………………. they were spec'd by the DfT» (Department for Transport - about) after all the DfT has the passengers interest at heart  Roll Eyes
And that is where the problem lies. A train no one wanted and few wanted to build.
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« Reply #2990 on: October 17, 2018, 13:34:16 »

Simon Calder has just been interviewed at Paddington and summed it up quite aptly - electrification - a project running years late, hundreds of millions of £ overspent - brand new (allegedly) high tech trains which simply don't seem to be up to it a year after their introduction, and the whole system collapsing for (probably) 24 hours and more due to one incident.

No evidence of any contingencies for customers, and even the suggestion of going via Waterloo this morning is scuppered by signal failures.

Overpriced, overcrowded, unreliable, uncaring, unfit for purpose.

The next time people ask themselves why people prefer travelling by car, or indeed virtually any alternative to the railways, remember last night and today.


No contingency plan will be able to cater for the amount traffic that goes into Paddington during the peak.  Any contingency you do have will be totally swamped and will become dangerous.

The problem is the area where the overheads come down, it’s head span construction, all the overheads are held up across all four lines by wires. When the overheads are bought down on one line it brings them down on the other three as well.  
Any train will need the overhead wires removed and then the electric train that is stranded will need rescuing.

That said, the state of the infrastructure doesn’t help.  Headspan is a cheap form of electrification

Just heard someone from Modern Railways on Radio 4 saying essentially that.
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« Reply #2991 on: October 17, 2018, 14:13:39 »

I expect passenger numbers will be considerably down compared with usual, so a 2-track timetable will just about cope with numbers, provided they don’t start chucking out 5-car IET (Intercity Express Train) and 4-car trains instead of booked formations.

With stock completely out of position, I doubt there'll be much of a timetable. They'll run what they can while planning to get all stock back in position for tomorrow morning.
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« Reply #2992 on: October 17, 2018, 16:55:29 »

Simon Calder has just been interviewed at Paddington...

Nice of him to take time off from America's Got The Pop Factor...
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« Reply #2993 on: October 17, 2018, 16:58:16 »

All four tracks now open (one restricted to diesel only), so there's a fighting chance of a reasonable evening peak service.  Trains and crew still badly displaced though, so it'll be far from perfect!
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To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
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« Reply #2994 on: October 17, 2018, 17:52:26 »

All four tracks now open (one restricted to diesel only), so there's a fighting chance of a reasonable evening peak service.  Trains and crew still badly displaced though, so it'll be far from perfect!

Yaay! Four tracks, now!

I pity the driver involved "The cost has run into millions!"
"Sorry about that."
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Now, please!
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« Reply #2995 on: October 17, 2018, 17:59:43 »

An empty 802 moving from North Pole to Bristol brought the wires down at Hanwell around 1930 last evening. Yet to hear how any evacuations happened, they can't still be on board, can they?

From an attribution viewpoint, I'm not yet clear whether the issue has into Hitachi, Great Western, Network Rail  or act-of-God origins. It may take a while to sort out - I understand (from yesterday) that there are still issues from the 2014 (was it?) issues at Dawlish of who picks up final bills.

On board - there may have been just a driver and I'm sure (s)he has long since been evacuated; I don't know if there's 'just' a tangle of wires or some more serious damage. No news (thank goodness) of anyone being hurt / rushed to hospital.



I wrote (s)he there - very interesting to learn yesterday at the GWR (Great Western Railway) stakeholder conference that although the company is pressing hard in gender neutral recruitment and looking to advertise vacancies and encourage across all communities, the train driver grade remains stubbornly male dominated.  Did I hear a figure of still just 7% of train drivers being ladies?

I was on the 20 03 Pad - Ply last night.  We left on time(ish), got to just past Old Oak Common, then were taken back into Paddington.  This was 21 00 so I thought it best to cut my losses, get a hotel and try in the morning.  I know the hotels in the Ealing/Brentford area so went there by tube, stayed in the Ealing Travelodge and travelled back from Brentford via Feltham and Reading.   Smooth trip, booked time from Reading (obviously started there) and back here in Plymouth around 14 30.   Wires down an occasional (and hopefully, fingers crossed, very rare) hazard of overhead electrification.
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« Reply #2996 on: October 17, 2018, 18:26:03 »

Latest from Network Rail. As part of the repair work, tonight from 21:00 all lines will be blocked to electric traction between Southall and Acton West. The main lines will be closed with all trains using the relief lines. All electric only services will be cancelled unless substituted by class 165/166 units. All class 800/802 formed trains to run on diesel mode between Reading and Paddington.

For the record, the offending train last night was operated and crewed by GB (Great Britain) Railfreight (GBRf) as they are contracted by Hitachi for all movements and testing of the units on Network Rail infrastructure prior to them being accepted into traffic.
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« Reply #2997 on: October 17, 2018, 18:34:49 »

From City A.M. http://www.cityam.com/265952/paddington-disruption-continue-into-tomorrow-network-rail

Quote
“We have been working all day on our plan to replace the electric lines and associated equipment quickly and safely. We have been doing as much as possible away from the track, but we can only carry out repairs in earnest when trains are not running," it said.

It said work wold begin on the track at 9pm this evening to install new wires.

“The extent of the damage means we will not be able to complete our repairs in one night, so while services on Thursday morning will be significantly improved, there may still be some disruption. We advise passengers to continue to check with train operators before travelling. We apologise to passengers who have been affected by this major incident.”
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« Reply #2998 on: October 17, 2018, 18:45:13 »

An empty 802 moving from North Pole to Bristol brought the wires down at Hanwell around 1930 last evening. Yet to hear how any evacuations happened, they can't still be on board, can they?

From an attribution viewpoint, I'm not yet clear whether the issue has into Hitachi, Great Western, Network Rail  or act-of-God origins. It may take a while to sort out - I understand (from yesterday) that there are still issues from the 2014 (was it?) issues at Dawlish of who picks up final bills.

On board - there may have been just a driver and I'm sure (s)he has long since been evacuated; I don't know if there's 'just' a tangle of wires or some more serious damage. No news (thank goodness) of anyone being hurt / rushed to hospital.



I wrote (s)he there - very interesting to learn yesterday at the GWR (Great Western Railway) stakeholder conference that although the company is pressing hard in gender neutral recruitment and looking to advertise vacancies and encourage across all communities, the train driver grade remains stubbornly male dominated.  Did I hear a figure of still just 7% of train drivers being ladies?

I was on the 20 03 Pad - Ply last night.  We left on time(ish), got to just past Old Oak Common, then were taken back into Paddington.  This was 21 00 so I thought it best to cut my losses, get a hotel and try in the morning.  I know the hotels in the Ealing/Brentford area so went there by tube, stayed in the Ealing Travelodge and travelled back from Brentford via Feltham and Reading.   Smooth trip, booked time from Reading (obviously started there) and back here in Plymouth around 14 30.   Wires down an occasional (and hopefully, fingers crossed, very rare) hazard of overhead electrification.


I'm sure we all wish Richard well, having just today been nominated for the "Smug traveller of the Year" award (sponsored by GWR) 🙂
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« Reply #2999 on: October 17, 2018, 18:48:05 »

I was on the 20 03 Pad - Ply last night.  We left on time(ish), got to just past Old Oak Common, then were taken back into Paddington.  This was 21 00 so I thought it best to cut my losses, get a hotel and try in the morning.  I know the hotels in the Ealing/Brentford area so went there by tube, stayed in the Ealing Travelodge and travelled back from Brentford via Feltham and Reading.   Smooth trip, booked time from Reading (obviously started there) and back here in Plymouth around 14 30.   Wires down an occasional (and hopefully, fingers crossed, very rare) hazard of overhead electrification.

Pleased to hear you managed to minimise the effects of the disruption, Richard.
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