TonyK
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Posts: 6438
The artist formerly known as Four Track, Now!
|
 |
« Reply #600 on: January 03, 2015, 20:05:28 » |
|
I don't wish to be a Luddite, but could it be that the increased complexity of the train-borne equipment will lead to lower train reliability?
I was going to answer and comment that we've seen that already, with services cancelled due to failures such as speedometer and windscreen wipers, which many steam engines never had, I don't think. We also had a cancellation due to the failure of cab heater the other week - I was going to add that to my list of 'new failure opportunities', but then realised that if the kettle went off the boil on a steam engine, it was more of problem than just keeping warm. edit to sort out quotingIn aviation circles, it is said that the main advantage of a twin-engined aircraft over a single-engined model is that it doubles the chances of engine failure. I am sure that the new kit will bring with it many "new failure opportunities", although it must be said that the current kit has not been short of such opportunities of late, nor that it has failed to grasp such opportunity with enthusiasm! That aside, one must move with the times. If the new kit is like any other computer-based system, it will be modular, to allow for easy repair. Software upgrades will be regular, to screw every last bit of performance out of the new systems, with duplication of safety-critical parts. One can expect constant monitoring of systems, with backroom analysis driving forward improvements and efficiencies on the IEP▸ trains. Might be prudent to take a pack of detonators and a selection of flags along too, just in case... |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Now, please!
|
|
|
|
ellendune
|
|
« Reply #601 on: January 03, 2015, 20:08:20 » |
|
Ah with the way DfT» contract the provision of rolling stock now the train manufactures / maintainer have to present a train ready for service to the TOC▸ if its not presented fit they don't get paid ............. what can possibly go wrong with this arrangement   The TOC presumably uses the money saved to instantly hire another train from someone else just in time to run the service with no disruption to passengers! |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
eightf48544
|
|
« Reply #602 on: January 04, 2015, 11:47:46 » |
|
That aside, one must move with the times. If the new kit is like any other computer-based system, it will be modular, to allow for easy repair. Software upgrades will be regular, to screw every last bit of performance out of the new systems, with duplication of safety-critical parts. One can expect constant monitoring of systems, with backroom analysis driving forward improvements and efficiencies on the IEP▸ trains.
Might be prudent to take a pack of detonators and a selection of flags along too, just in case...
Not so sure about you optimism about software upgrades. It's going to be mammoth task to upgrade all the trains and the operaing centres simultaneously. Look at the mess the Dutch and Belgians got into on the Amsterdam Brussels HSL with different versions of the software in each country. So detonators and flags it is. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
IndustryInsider
|
|
« Reply #603 on: January 04, 2015, 11:58:29 » |
|
Not so sure about you optimism about software upgrades. It's going to be mammoth task to upgrade all the trains and the operaing centres simultaneously.
Can't see simultaneous software upgrades being a problem in the 2020s with the technology already making it possible to upload data onto trains wirelessly in a very short space of time. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
To view my GWML▸ Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/ |
|
|
|
tomL
|
|
« Reply #604 on: January 04, 2015, 15:15:00 » |
|
Not so sure about you optimism about software upgrades. It's going to be mammoth task to upgrade all the trains and the operaing centres simultaneously.
Can't see simultaneous software upgrades being a problem in the 2020s with the technology already making it possible to upload data onto trains wirelessly in a very short space of time. Most gadgets now use OTA▸ (Over The Air) updates. No reason this can't be applied here. Although there is a bit more at stake if something goes wrong... |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
TonyK
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Posts: 6438
The artist formerly known as Four Track, Now!
|
|
« Reply #605 on: January 04, 2015, 19:43:30 » |
|
Not so sure about you optimism about software upgrades. It's going to be mammoth task to upgrade all the trains and the operaing centres simultaneously.
Can't see simultaneous software upgrades being a problem in the 2020s with the technology already making it possible to upload data onto trains wirelessly in a very short space of time. My thoughts too. Will the 25Kv line have the capability to carry data, like National Grid's stuff has? If so, the train could pull out of Chippenham on Windows 97, and arrive at Bath running 8.1 (with service patch). |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Now, please!
|
|
|
|
JayMac
|
|
« Reply #606 on: January 04, 2015, 19:50:02 » |
|
If so, the train could pull out of Chippenham on Windows 97, and arrive at Bath running 8.1 (with service patch).
If it's Windows, the train will crash during the update.   |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
"Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for the rest of the day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
- Sir Terry Pratchett.
|
|
|
|
Electric train
|
|
« Reply #607 on: January 04, 2015, 20:06:15 » |
|
Not so sure about you optimism about software upgrades. It's going to be mammoth task to upgrade all the trains and the operaing centres simultaneously.
Can't see simultaneous software upgrades being a problem in the 2020s with the technology already making it possible to upload data onto trains wirelessly in a very short space of time. My thoughts too. Will the 25Kv line have the capability to carry data, like National Grid's stuff has? If so, the train could pull out of Chippenham on Windows 97, and arrive at Bath running 8.1 (with service patch). If so, the train could pull out of Chippenham on Windows 97, and arrive at Bath running 8.1 (with service patch).
Data is not transmitted over the 25kV cables, the control of the traction system is sent over the internal railway fibre network If it's Windows, the train will crash during the update. Strange you should mention Windows  one of the ECR's has just had its SCADA▸ top end computers replaced with a Windows 7 based architecture Apart from a few dc traction ECR's still using 1950/60's electromechanical systems a couple are using a DOS based architecture on 386 computers  There is a National SCADA project underway, which GWEP▸ is part of, to upgrade all the ECR top ends and replace all the electromechanical systems. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Starship just experienced what we call a rapid unscheduled disassembly, or a RUD, during ascent,”
|
|
|
TonyK
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Posts: 6438
The artist formerly known as Four Track, Now!
|
|
« Reply #608 on: January 04, 2015, 21:07:10 » |
|
Strange you should mention Windows one of the ECR's has just had its SCADA▸ top end computers replaced with a Windows 7 based architecture Apart from a few dc traction ECR's still using 1950/60's electromechanical systems a couple are using a DOS based architecture on 386 computers There is a National SCADA project underway, which GWEP▸ is part of, to upgrade all the ECR top ends and replace all the electromechanical systems. Nothing wrong with DOS, as an operating system if it does what you want it to do. Much of Windows will be irrelevant padding for railway control system programmes, so why not keep it simple? By electro-mechanical systems, are we talking about the sorts of things with slow running motors turning eccentric cams to open and shut microswitches to run a sequence of events? I worked in an amusement arcade in Blackpool in the latter part of the 17th century, and had experience of such things in pinball machines and the electric fruit machines. That bit of the machine worked solidly and uncomplainingly, whilst everything else went wrong for a pastime. Apparently, a similar device controlled the Soyuz that linked with Apollo in the 1970s. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Now, please!
|
|
|
|
eightf48544
|
|
« Reply #609 on: January 04, 2015, 23:26:15 » |
|
SCDA? ECR?
I like relays you can hear them working!
As my cousin says who works on ITSO cards, "Never Trust Electronics"
Still not sure that software upgrades will be easy even with OTA▸ . Think of a Vomiter on the Penzance Aberdeen run.
Not sure how many control centres that will go through, which will presumably have to be upgraded simultainiously (overnight). What happens to any night trains will they all have to stop and reboot at the same time? Needs thinking about.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
ChrisB
|
|
« Reply #610 on: January 05, 2015, 09:35:39 » |
|
Back on topic....
Journeycheck text has signal problems twixt Oxford & Paddington....
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
TaplowGreen
|
|
« Reply #611 on: January 05, 2015, 11:15:14 » |
|
Back on topic....
Journeycheck text has signal problems twixt Oxford & Paddington....
...........it's a New Year but some things stay the same............. Cancellations to services between Slough and London Paddington Due to signalling problems between Slough and London Paddington some London bound relief lines are disrupted. Impact: Train services running to and from these stations may be cancelled, delayed or revised. An estimate for the resumption of normal services will be provided as soon as the problem has been fully assessed. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Red Squirrel
Administrator
Hero Member
Posts: 5206
There are some who call me... Tim
|
|
« Reply #612 on: January 05, 2015, 11:26:26 » |
|
In aviation circles, it is said that the main advantage of a twin-engined aircraft over a single-engined model is that it doubles the chances of engine failure...
In some aviation circles, maybe. I think it was David Learmount of Flight International who, when asked why he preferred to fly in four-engined airliners, replied 'Because there are no five-engined airliners'. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Things take longer to happen than you think they will, and then they happen faster than you thought they could.
|
|
|
|
IndustryInsider
|
|
« Reply #613 on: January 05, 2015, 12:22:54 » |
|
Train services running to and from these stations may be cancelled, delayed or revised. An estimate for the resumption of normal services will be provided as soon as the problem has been fully assessed.
Back to normal now and limited disruption anyway of around 5-15 minutes on relief line services. Can't see any cancellations as a result, though Langley, Iver and West Drayton, Hayes, Southall and Ealing stops were removed from some trains (and inserted into the next train 15 or so minutes later), mostly in the London bound direction. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
To view my GWML▸ Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/ |
|
|
|
broadgage
|
|
« Reply #614 on: January 05, 2015, 16:05:50 » |
|
The service has worsened since the previous post, with about a dozen cancelations and many trains serving only part of the route. Some of the problems are signalling related but most seem to be due to a person hit by a train  edit to add, latest reports suggest that the victim fell from a bridge onto the railway and was not struck by a train, still very sad no matter what the exact circumstances |
|
|
|
« Last Edit: January 05, 2015, 17:55:45 by broadgage »
|
Logged
|
A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU▸ is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
|
|
|
|
