New trains from old?

[whole diary]

[TonyK]

How very sensible! In terms of the overall cost, it has to be worth it. Although fire extinguishers are like insurance - you buy it hoping you never use it.

[stuving]

How very sensible! In terms of the overall cost, it has to be worth it. Although fire extinguishers are like insurance - you buy it hoping you never use it.

Mind you, sticking one on the wall in the garage or kitchen is a lot less hassle than carting it around the countryside all day every day and checking its water and gas every night.

[TonyK]

Mind you, sticking one on the wall in the garage or kitchen is a lot less hassle than carting it around the countryside all day every day and checking its water and gas every night.

I used to do that in an aeroplane before every flight, meaning that on nice summers days, it may have been checked half a dozen or more times by different pilots!
I now have three in the garage and one by the kitchen. There is one place where I am required by insurers to have one in the kitchen, and it is cheaper to buy new every two years than pay to have them checked, hence my burgeoning collection. When I next replace the one in the cottage, I might light a small fire and try the oldest one out.

[grahame]

From Rail

Following a fire aboard the prototype Vivarail D-Train at Kenilworth on December 30, the planned trial with London Midland has been cancelled.

The eight-month trial that was due to begin next month on the Coventry-Nuneaton line, during which 230001 was to be pressed into revenue-earning service for the first time with London Midland. This is because the D-Train was undergoing final testing and had yet to receive its safety certification when it caught fire.

In a joint statement, trial sponsors Coventry City Council, Coventry and Warwickshire Local Enterprise Partnership, London Midland, Warwickshire County Council and the West Midlands Combined Authority said on January 9 that the likely delay in receiving certification meant that “there is no longer enough time to run and evaluate a pilot service using these trains before the next local rail franchise starts in October”.

[TonyK]

This has gone from "A couple more runs, then start loading passengers" to "Cancelled" in the wink of an eye. There has been no attempt to give a window for further testing. Given the need for transport, this is being taken more seriously by the Powers That Be than meets the eye. Would that have been the case had there been an automatic fire suppression system on board?  (A propos which, it wouldn't have been water based, would it?)

[ChrisB]

That may be the route they go - but of course they need to investigate & identify the cause, then I suspect work with the engine module suppliers to iron out the fault / decide whether to fit (if space allows of course) suppression equipment.

It was always going to be tight getting them certified in time for the new franchise start in just a few months. I suspect the immediate decision is linked with that, so as to give the new franchise a definite so they can plan ahead.

Adrian Shooter just doesn't work the way you describe

[stuving]

This has gone from "A couple more runs, then start loading passengers" to "Cancelled" in the wink of an eye. There has been no attempt to give a window for further testing. Given the need for transport, this is being taken more seriously by the Powers That Be than meets the eye. Would that have been the case had there been an automatic fire suppression system on board?  (A propos which, it wouldn't have been water based, would it?)

Well, the fire suppression on the IEPs^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) is a water spray. And it's what fire brigades use on cars, and on trains - the pictures of this incident show that. Not recommended unless you have a big tank of water, so not a viable "first aid" extinguisher for your boot.

You can't flood an underfloor engine with inert gas - it would all run away!

[eightf48544]

I've helped, with the driver, put out a fire under a 33 in traction motor blower trunking  in Uckfield station. No fire brigade had a fitter meet us at Brighton.

Using a CTC pump extinguisher.  (Now banned?)

Admittedly it was the 1960s

[TonyK]

Thanks folks, for the education. I see now that water is more appropriate - presumably to get rid of the heat rather than starve oxygen? Gas is for confined spaces, like jet engine nascelles, where HFCs^▸ (Hydrogen-Fuelled Car) replaced Halon some 20 years ago.

[stuving]

Thanks folks, for the education. I see now that water is more appropriate - presumably to get rid of the heat rather than starve oxygen? Gas is for confined spaces, like jet engine nascelles, where HFCs^▸ (Hydrogen-Fuelled Car) replaced Halon some 20 years ago.

Excluding oxygen is a strategy that only works in the right circumstances. The general principles I remember are to separate fuel from burning fire and from ignition source (including heat which vaporises the fuel). Water can do those, and extract heat, but also protect fire-fighters with a water screen.

I get quite twitchy when I see someone take a gas torch to the underside of a car. A long time ago I saw an exhaust fitter doing that who, for speed, put the torch behind him over his shoulder so he could take off his goggles and see the bracket he was cutting. Of course he pointed it at the side of the petrol tank, with the predictable result that petrol flowed out, caught fire, and ran down his back.

His colleagues were quick to get him away and beat that fire out, but were left with a car on a hoist, petrol on the floor, and fire licking up at the tank. They made various attempts at it with CO₂ and water extinguishers, but each time someone put out the fire on the ground or under the tank they would shift to the other site and the fire relit. No-one though to use two at once - and then the manager came haring out of his office with a dry powder extinguisher and put it out in one second.

I was very impressed by that, and came away with several learning points (as the RAIB^▸ (Rail Accident Investigation Branch) would put it). I didn't come away with any new tyres, as the fire brigade arrived and sent all us customers home so they could get all the staff in the office and treat them to some "learning points" of their own.

Dry powder (commonly baking soda) is of course excluding oxygen in a sense, but by creating its CO₂ locally. Good for small fires, and it does stick to surfaces. I've used a very small one on a chip-fryer in a neighbour's house, and it worked but was rather messy. Mind you he still thanked me, for obvious reasons, despite an off-duty fireman turning up and demonstrating how to do it with just wet cloths and no extra mess to clean up.

[TonyK]

Dry powder (commonly baking soda) is of course excluding oxygen in a sense, but by creating its CO₂ locally. Good for small fires, and it does stick to surfaces. I've used a very small one on a chip-fryer in a neighbour's house, and it worked but was rather messy. Mind you he still thanked me, for obvious reasons, despite an off-duty fireman turning up and demonstrating how to do it with just wet cloths and no extra mess to clean up.

The "two wet, but not dripping, tea cloths" approach would have saved a former (now late) boss from serious burns. When he awoke to a burning chip pan (the old story of a post-pub plate of chips before bed), he grabbed it by the handle, and threw it out of his back door. That greatly increased the surface area of the oil open to air, so the flames grew instantly. The wind caught it, with the result that he was lucky to escape with only moderately severe burns.

I too have seen a frying pan fire put out using two wet cloths. I have a fire blanket in the kitchen of the cottage (insurance demand) but would use the tea cloths in preference.

Sorry - where were we? Ah yes. I hope this experiment resumes, maybe with fire suppression or whatever may be found likely to have prevented the fire. We aren't getting enough new rolling stock, so the more practical use we can make of recycled kit, the better.

[SandTEngineer]

A photograph of the burnt out engine can be found here: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2TG-13XAAEknjk?format=jpg&name=large

[ChrisB]

Adrian Shooter is talking to CILT South tomorrow evening on the D-Train. Opportune moment to find out the latest. Redhill Harlequin Theatre 1830 free

[Western Pathfinder]

A photograph of the burnt out engine can be found here: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2TG-13XAAEknjk?format=jpg&name=large

That looks like the remains of a Ford Transit Diesel engine to me .

[John R]

A photograph of the burnt out engine can be found here: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2TG-13XAAEknjk?format=jpg&name=large

That looks like the remains of a Ford Transit Diesel engine to me .

Yes, that's correct. On its very first (and last) outing apparently having just been swapped in.