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Author Topic: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards  (Read 162932 times)
bignosemac
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« Reply #615 on: November 30, 2018, 12:54:48 am »

Getting rid of the Sleeper seems a little far fetched considering the money being spent on refitting the Mk3 SLEPs at the moment.

Then there's the political aspect. Previous rumblings of a withdrawal led to a concerted campaign from Plymouth/Cornwall politicians to 'save' the Sleeper. Expect similar again if the next franchise tender allows for withdrawal.

What's actually needed is new locomotives, and possibly DVTs. CAFs Mark 5A DVT with a Class 68 would seem like a good option if they can be married to the Mk3 SLEPs. Having a DVT negates the need to rely on two locomotives for moving stock into and out of Paddington.

Or of course the next franchise could go for Mk5 Sleeper carriages of a similar design to those being introduced on the Caledonian Sleepers.
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« Reply #616 on: November 30, 2018, 10:47:51 am »

Another sleepless night tonight...

I know engineering work is obviously necessary, but I can't see the point of still running this as a sleeper service when you're expected to be woken up to get off at Plymouth for replacement road transport, then back on another train at St Austell!

"Engineering work is taking place between Liskeard and Par, closing some lines.

The 23:45 London Paddington to Par "Night Riviera" Sleeper service will terminate at Plymouth. Replacement road transport will run from Plymouth to St Austell for a rail connection onwards to Truro and stations to Penzance.

There will also be a rail connection from Plymouth to Liskeard for road transport from Liskeard to Bodmin Parkway, Lostwithiel and Par.
"
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Oh for the day when I can catch a train from Mangotsfield to the Centre, Bath and Yate!  ;-)
broadgage
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« Reply #617 on: November 30, 2018, 11:58:52 am »

Getting rid of the Sleeper seems a little far fetched considering the money being spent on refitting the Mk3 SLEPs at the moment.

Then there's the political aspect. Previous rumblings of a withdrawal led to a concerted campaign from Plymouth/Cornwall politicians to 'save' the Sleeper. Expect similar again if the next franchise tender allows for withdrawal.

What's actually needed is new locomotives, and possibly DVTs. CAFs Mark 5A DVT with a Class 68 would seem like a good option if they can be married to the Mk3 SLEPs. Having a DVT negates the need to rely on two locomotives for moving stock into and out of Paddington.

Or of course the next franchise could go for Mk5 Sleeper carriages of a similar design to those being introduced on the Caledonian Sleepers.

Yes, it is rather far fetched.
Almost as far fetched as a suggestion that proper inter-city trains could be replaced with 5 car DMUs without buffets.

A survey needs to be done to show that hardly anyone uses the sleeper and that a non-sleeper train would be preferred by most.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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« Reply #618 on: November 30, 2018, 12:05:14 pm »

Getting rid of the Sleeper seems a little far fetched considering the money being spent on refitting the Mk3 SLEPs at the moment.

Then there's the political aspect. Previous rumblings of a withdrawal led to a concerted campaign from Plymouth/Cornwall politicians to 'save' the Sleeper. Expect similar again if the next franchise tender allows for withdrawal.

What's actually needed is new locomotives, and possibly DVTs. CAFs Mark 5A DVT with a Class 68 would seem like a good option if they can be married to the Mk3 SLEPs. Having a DVT negates the need to rely on two locomotives for moving stock into and out of Paddington.

Or of course the next franchise could go for Mk5 Sleeper carriages of a similar design to those being introduced on the Caledonian Sleepers.

Yes, it is rather far fetched.
Almost as far fetched as a suggestion that proper inter-city trains could be replaced with 5 car DMUs without buffets.

A survey needs to be done to show that hardly anyone uses the sleeper and that a non-sleeper train would be preferred by most.

I Think maybe a better idea is to have four IETS Converted into sleeper trains, these would be more efficient. Or specially built trains with smaller windows for 1st and standard with a 1st and std breakfast coach.
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broadgage
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« Reply #619 on: November 30, 2018, 12:19:08 pm »

A DMU sleeper ! two classes of travel could be provided, "engine under bed" or for a higher price "no engine under bed"

Would beds/mattresses with some padding be allowed ? Or would they be like the seats ? Would Hitachi have to approve the bedding, would it have to have a lurid green stripe.

More seriously, I suppose that this could be made to work but it seems rather improbable. DMU sleepers would almost certainly have to be new build, not converted from existing stock since supplies of same are already inadequate.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
grahame
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« Reply #620 on: November 30, 2018, 12:26:42 pm »

A DMU sleeper ! two classes of travel could be provided, "engine under bed" or for a higher price "no engine under bed"

I recall seeing a picture of a 153 in "Night Star" livery at Blaeneau Ffestiniog.  For the "Beds to Brussels" service?

To be fair, I think it was photoshopped ...
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Charlie (in Gloucester)
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« Reply #621 on: November 30, 2018, 04:46:36 pm »

A DMU sleeper ! two classes of travel could be provided, "engine under bed" or for a higher price "no engine under bed"

Would beds/mattresses with some padding be allowed ? Or would they be like the seats ? Would Hitachi have to approve the bedding, would it have to have a lurid green stripe.

More seriously, I suppose that this could be made to work but it seems rather improbable. DMU sleepers would almost certainly have to be new build, not converted from existing stock since supplies of same are already inadequate.

Have a day off, he was only making a suggestion that isnít a silly one.
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Regular Passenger on the GWR network, especially on services between Gloucester, Swindon and Paddington.
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« Reply #622 on: November 30, 2018, 06:49:24 pm »

A DMU sleeper ! two classes of travel could be provided, "engine under bed" or for a higher price "no engine under bed"

Would beds/mattresses with some padding be allowed ? Or would they be like the seats ? Would Hitachi have to approve the bedding, would it have to have a lurid green stripe.

More seriously, I suppose that this could be made to work but it seems rather improbable. DMU sleepers would almost certainly have to be new build, not converted from existing stock since supplies of same are already inadequate.

Have a day off, he was only making a suggestion that isnít a silly one.

Broadgage seldom misses an opportunity.  However, for me, more likely is a conversion job by Vivarail.  After all, the sleeper timings could easily be kept with a 60mph D Train and they have promised their train interiors are very flexible to meet a TOC's requirements.   Wink
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To view my cab run over the new Reading Viaduct as well as a relief line cab ride at Reading just after Platforms 12-15 opened and my 'before and after' video comparison of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/1
Charlie (in Gloucester)
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« Reply #623 on: November 30, 2018, 09:17:21 pm »

A DMU sleeper ! two classes of travel could be provided, "engine under bed" or for a higher price "no engine under bed"

Would beds/mattresses with some padding be allowed ? Or would they be like the seats ? Would Hitachi have to approve the bedding, would it have to have a lurid green stripe.

More seriously, I suppose that this could be made to work but it seems rather improbable. DMU sleepers would almost certainly have to be new build, not converted from existing stock since supplies of same are already inadequate.

Have a day off, he was only making a suggestion that isnít a silly one.

Broadgage seldom misses an opportunity.  However, for me, more likely is a conversion job by Vivarail.  After all, the sleeper timings could easily be kept with a 60mph D Train and they have promised their train interiors are very flexible to meet a TOC's requirements.   Wink

It was more the fact that itís unnecessary to moan about an Intercity Express Train in a thread about the Night Riviera just as he shows dislike towards the DMU.
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Surrey 455
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« Reply #624 on: November 30, 2018, 10:54:38 pm »

However, for me, more likely is a conversion job by Vivarail.  After all, the sleeper timings could easily be kept with a 60mph D Train and they have promised their train interiors are very flexible to meet a TOC's requirements.   Wink

How many carriages, compartments & beds does the existing sleeper have? How many do you think could Vivarail offer if they were to do such a thing? How noisy are the D Trains?
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« Reply #625 on: December 01, 2018, 01:49:46 am »

How many carriages, compartments & beds does the existing sleeper have? How many do you think could Vivarail offer if they were to do such a thing? How noisy are the D Trains?

Lots.  Nowhere near as many.  Very noisy.
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TonyK
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« Reply #626 on: December 05, 2018, 11:38:03 pm »

Broadgage seldom misses an opportunity.  However, for me, more likely is a conversion job by Vivarail.  After all, the sleeper timings could easily be kept with a 60mph D Train and they have promised their train interiors are very flexible to meet a TOC's requirements.   Wink

In a previous, more nomadic, period of my life, I did in fact sleep on the Circle Line, and still don't know where the depot I woke up in is.
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Now, please!
Dispatch Box
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« Reply #627 on: December 07, 2018, 11:46:49 am »

Broadgage seldom misses an opportunity.  However, for me, more likely is a conversion job by Vivarail.  After all, the sleeper timings could easily be kept with a 60mph D Train and they have promised their train interiors are very flexible to meet a TOC's requirements.   Wink

In a previous, more nomadic, period of my life, I did in fact sleep on the Circle Line, and still don't know where the depot I woke up in is.

You must ave, been very tired,Must of had a good day. Like a teddy bear at a picnic.
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TonyK
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« Reply #628 on: December 08, 2018, 07:15:01 pm »

You must ave, been very tired,Must of had a good day. Like a teddy bear at a picnic.

The opposite. So knackered that I could have slept practically anywhere above water.
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« Reply #629 on: December 08, 2018, 07:28:43 pm »

In a previous, more nomadic, period of my life, I did in fact sleep on the Circle Line, and still don't know where the depot I woke up in is.

Depot
The line's depot is at Hammersmith,[c] close to Hammersmith station, originally built by the Great Western Railway to be operated by the Metropolitan Railway when the joint Hammersmith & City Railway was electrified in the early 20th century.[53] Sidings at Barking, Farringdon and near High Street Kensington (known as Triangle Sidings) stable trains overnight

Those are the current locations you may have woken up in. I don't know if there were previously others.
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