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Author Topic: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards  (Read 314939 times)
phile
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« Reply #660 on: April 04, 2019, 09:47:05 »

Alternative locomotives, what has happened to all those class 67's that were redundant following the cessation of the Royal Mail rail operation and closure of the RailNet centres, they might just be more reliable than the 57's.

This suggestion has been done to death over the years and, in a nutshell, it is not practicable to use 67s for various reasons.    The performance of the 57s has improved immensely over the last 2 years.
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« Reply #661 on: April 04, 2019, 10:04:42 »

The 57s are performing OK, but will need replacing sooner rather than later.  Rather than modify and use other stock approaching the end of its life, such as HST (High Speed Train) power cars, I’d favour Class 68s, or two Class 88s (if they would provide enough oomph up the Cornish banks), or even a Class 68 and 88 combination if possible.  The 88 could draw power from the OHLE when available and also act as emergency rescue for the 68 if in difficulty.  Leasing costs might be the deciding factor though.

When the direct award ends and a proper franchise is let I would expect a longer term strategy to be clearer, including replacement of the carriages during the life of that franchise.  I don’t expect the sleeper to finish anytime soon.
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« Reply #662 on: April 04, 2019, 11:18:28 »

The 57s are performing OK, but will need replacing sooner rather than later.  Rather than modify and use other stock approaching the end of its life, such as HST (High Speed Train) power cars, I’d favour Class 68s, or two Class 88s (if they would provide enough oomph up the Cornish banks), or even a Class 68 and 88 combination if possible.  The 88 could draw power from the OHLE when available and also act as emergency rescue for the 68 if in difficulty.  Leasing costs might be the deciding factor though.

When the direct award ends and a proper franchise is let I would expect a longer term strategy to be clearer, including replacement of the carriages during the life of that franchise.  I don’t expect the sleeper to finish anytime soon.

Other than Sundays (up) and Thurs/Fridays (down), how busy is the sleeper generally?

Is it profitable?
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« Reply #663 on: April 04, 2019, 11:55:13 »

I don’t know.  I last used it in the early 90s!  I believe from what I’ve heard that overall it just about breaks even, but if it’s getting busier as others suggest then hopefully it’ll turn a profit, albeit a modest one.

Many people use it for ‘the experience’, so whilst a flight to/from Newquay will offer some competition, certainly if you live in or near Newquay, and it’s good that there’s another option, I doubt it’ll affect passenger numbers too much.
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« Reply #664 on: April 04, 2019, 13:54:57 »

The 57s are fairly reliable, we just hear about them every time they fail because of the service they’re hauling!

Where’s the discussion and calling for the replacement of the 150 that failed at Bodmin on Sunday, or the one that failed last week on the Looe branch. That’s more 150 failures in Cornwall alone in the last week than 57 failures across the network!
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« Reply #665 on: April 04, 2019, 14:23:09 »

The failure of the loco on the sleeper is arguably of greater importance than a failure of most other services.
In many cases daytime passengers can take the next service, being turfed of the sleeper in order to await a non sleeper service is likely to be a much greater inconvenience.

This is an argument for re-purposed HST (High Speed Train) power cars since a sleeper thus powered should be able to complete its journey on one engine if need be.
Proceeding at reduced performance and loosing time would be preferred by most passengers to changing to a non sleeper train.
The disruption to other trains would also be reduced.

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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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« Reply #666 on: April 04, 2019, 14:30:17 »

The 57s are fairly reliable, we just hear about them every time they fail because of the service they’re hauling!


..and given the scarcity of 57s in GWR (Great Western Railway) land they are often harder to rescue when they do fail.   The errant loco was left in the sidings at Par after the rest of the train had been taken to Plymouth yesterday.  I don't know if it is still there.
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grahame
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« Reply #667 on: April 04, 2019, 14:47:49 »

The 57s are fairly reliable, we just hear about them every time they fail because of the service they’re hauling!
..and given the scarcity of 57s in GWR (Great Western Railway) land they are often harder to rescue when they do fail. 

Perhaps there's a case for standardisation - using 802/4s - which would differ from 802/0s purely in their internal configurations.
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« Reply #668 on: April 04, 2019, 15:04:52 »

I’ll side with Broadgage there in that underfloor engines are not suitable for a sleeper carriage.
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« Reply #669 on: April 04, 2019, 15:13:50 »

I’ll side with Broadgage there in that underfloor engines are not suitable for a sleeper carriage.

Not only that, but IET (Intercity Express Train) style beds if as hard as the seats might find little favour. Though a plywood base covered with 4mm of foam has the merit of being cheaper than a proper bed.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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« Reply #670 on: April 04, 2019, 21:51:41 »

Quote
I think you'll find that that they only drag that extra locomotive between Paddington and Reading, so as to make the reversal at the platform slicker. It is added and removed at Reading, where it quite likely does spend its time doing not a lot. If the sleeper did drag a second locomotive all the way, then of course that would be a spare, available on the spot.

Thanks Stuving - I never realised that they only "topped and tailed" between Reading and Paddington. I had occasionally wondered how they manged a train in each direction with two locos when the pool looked so small. Looks like my suggestion at least smoked out who likes 57s and who does not!
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paul7575
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« Reply #671 on: April 05, 2019, 09:53:49 »

Quote
I think you'll find that that they only drag that extra locomotive between Paddington and Reading, so as to make the reversal at the platform slicker. It is added and removed at Reading, where it quite likely does spend its time doing not a lot. If the sleeper did drag a second locomotive all the way, then of course that would be a spare, available on the spot.

Thanks Stuving - I never realised that they only "topped and tailed" between Reading and Paddington. I had occasionally wondered how they manged a train in each direction with two locos when the pool looked so small. Looks like my suggestion at least smoked out who likes 57s and who does not!
Hasn’t the topping and tailing from Reading only been fairly recent, since they lost the use of Old Oak Common?

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bobm
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« Reply #672 on: April 05, 2019, 09:57:17 »

Yes - the loco used to come off Old Oak and follow the train into Paddington and couple up on platform 1.

There was a time in the recent past when the 57s were being particularly troublesome that the trains ran topped and tailed throughout and had a travelling fitter on board.
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bradshaw
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« Reply #673 on: May 13, 2019, 21:47:02 »


May 13 from Journey Check
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21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:12
Facilities on the 21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:12.
This is due to a shortage of trains because of extra safety inspections.
Additional Facilities Information
The sleeper service will be formed of a 9-car Intercity Express Train due to a fault on the original sleeper stock.
Additional Information
Due to a resourcing issue we are unable to operate this evenings Sleeper service between London Paddington and Penzance / Penzance and London Paddington.

We have arranged for this service to be supplemented by our regular High Speed train which will offer a Standard and First Class seating service only. There will be no accommodation facilities.
   
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bobm
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« Reply #674 on: May 13, 2019, 21:52:48 »

Think that might be the first time the sleeper has been replaced by an IET (Intercity Express Train) rather than an HST (High Speed Train). Not that will much comfort for those involved. 
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