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Author Topic: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards  (Read 200350 times)
Umberleigh
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« Reply #750 on: February 18, 2020, 10:35:35 am »

I remember seeing a La Poste TGV with no windows at Gare du Lyon back in 2003, so there is a precedent for adapting high speed trains for other uses
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nickswift99
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« Reply #751 on: February 18, 2020, 05:21:43 pm »

They stopped running in 2015. There's a good article here https://www.connaissance-du-rail.com/reportages-et-photos/la-fin-des-tgv-postaux/ (apologies it's in French - I've added a google translate version below)

Quote
After more than 30 years of good and loyal service, postal TGVs finally bowed out on Saturday June 27, 2015, ending more than a century and a half of collaboration between the postal administration and the railway.

Postal TGV Paris - Cavaillon. Rame 951. Vinneuf
On June 8, 2015, the 951 train ensures the TGV 6997 Paris - Cavaillon, seen here in Vinneuf, in Yonne. Photo Pierre BAZIN
It was in 1982 that La Poste, attracted by the TGV formula, decided to acquire this type of equipment for its rapid delivery.

Two trains are then ordered.

Composed of two drive units framing eight trailers, each with a large side door on each side, they can take 250 specific containers loaded with mail and parcels.

In fact, five half-trains, numbered 901 to 905, called sections, will be delivered to ensure the reserve.

Assigned to the Paris-Sud-Est depot, they will enter into service from October 1, 1984.

Each day, they will make two round trips between Paris-Charolais and Lyon-Montrochet, where a warehouse has been specially fitted out. One of the two relationships marks a stop at Mâcon-Loché, where a specific platform has also been created on the service connection joining the high-speed line to the conventional line.

Postal TGV. Rame 952 in Marolels-sur-Seine. Train 6997 Paris - Cavaillon
Train 952 in Marolles-sur-Seine, June 16, 2015, with the TGV 6997 Paris - Cavaillon. Photo Pierre BAZIN
On November 7, 1994, a new sorting center was put into service in Cavaillon.

As a result, Lyon-Montrochet was abandoned and the new service now consists of four daily connections from the capital: two to Cavaillon and two to Mâcon.

This requires the use of an additional train obtained by transforming the first class South-East train no. 38, which will become the postal sections no. 906 and 907.

Postal TGV to Crisenoy. Rame 951. TGV 6991 Paris - Mâcon
Passage to Crisenoy of the 951 train with the TGV 6991 Paris - Mâcon. Photo Pierre BAZIN, June 17, 2015
In 2003, the operating numbers of the trains changed according to the following scheme:

- Train 951: drive units 923-001 and 923-006 (ex sections 901 and 906)

- Rame 952: drive units 923-003 and 923-005 (ex-sections 903 and 905)

- Rame 953: drive units 923-004 and 923-007 (ex sections 904 and 907)

- Train 954: power train 923-002 (ex-section 902); half-oar ensuring the reserve.

In 2006, a new livery, with much more visible Post logos, appeared.

At the same time, the service of the Atlantic facade is mentioned. But the idea was quickly abandoned due to the fall in the number of priority letters to be sent, a phenomenon accentuated by the development of electronic messaging and the success of the "green letter", delivered in two days.

Postal TGV to Champdeuil. Rame 953. TGV 6996 Cavaillon - Paris
In the early morning at Champdeuil, on the high-speed Interconnection line, the 953 train goes to Paris with the TGV 6996 from Cavaillon. Photo Pierre BAZIN. June 26, 2015
As the volume of mail transported continues to decrease, the round trip ¨Paris - Cavaillon de jour was eliminated in 2009.

Since then, only three daily rotations remained, one on Cavaillon, two on Mâcon, which enabled postal trains to make average monthly journeys of 17,600 km, a total of approximately 8,500,000 km since their implementation service in 1984.

But the fall in the volumes of mail transported continuing, it was decided to definitively stop the service of postal TGV on Saturday June 27, 2015.

This led to the closure of the Paris-Charolais sorting center, replaced by a new warehouse in Bonneuil-sur-Marne, grouping mail to the entire territory.

In the future, it is planned to send mail by swap bodies, either by conventional freight trains or by trucks, depending on the destinations. However, nothing has yet been decided on the future of rail transport in the area of ​​mail transport.

La Poste would like to resell the trains, but given their special architecture, they are more likely to be scrapped.
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72c
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« Reply #752 on: February 18, 2020, 05:32:15 pm »

Does anybody know why the current curtailed Sleeper service commences/terminates at Plymouth rather Truro?   A Truro start/finish would offer a better customer experience perhaps.
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grahame
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« Reply #753 on: February 18, 2020, 06:08:16 pm »

I remember seeing a La Poste TGV with no windows at Gare du Lyon back in 2003, so there is a precedent for adapting high speed trains for other uses

They stopped running in 2015. There's a good article here https://www.connaissance-du-rail.com/reportages-et-photos/la-fin-des-tgv-postaux/ (apologies it's in French - I've added a google translate version below)

Quote
After more than 30 years of good and loyal service, postal TGVs finally bowed out on Saturday June 27, 2015, ending more than a century and a half of collaboration between the postal administration and the railway.

[snip]


Very interesting ...

More about these trains on WikiPedia.


Image - Florian Fèvre (I have trimmed it), Cretive Commons 4.0 license


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stuving
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« Reply #754 on: February 18, 2020, 07:32:11 pm »

Very interesting ...

Well, if you say so. A couple of extra points, then:

La Poste did use TPOs, with the last two running to Brittany (until 1995) and Besancon (2001). But by then the amount of urgent overnight letter mail was too small to justify that train, and the bulk was press and pre-sorted. By 2015 that "too small" applied to the TGV routes as well, and most of what they were carrying wasn't needed next day.

So the plan then was for containerisation; these go by road to Bonneuil sur Marne, then share a (slow) train to another similar platforme. How that works now I can't find any mention of - which may be good news, of course.

But the Class 325s are still in use, aren't they? There are regular nightly services between Willesden PRDC and at least Sheildmuir, Warrington, and Gateshead.
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rower40
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« Reply #755 on: March 05, 2020, 03:20:45 pm »

I may have just jinxed the Down sleeper for next Wednesday night. I haz orange cardboard for a trip to a signalling briefing in Bodmin.
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bobm
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« Reply #756 on: March 07, 2020, 09:43:22 am »

Separate issues affecting both sleeper services overnight.

The down service left London Paddington nearly three and a half hours late after a fresh loco had to be sent from Reading.   It arrived in Penzance nearly 90 minutes behind time.

Meanwhile the up service was held up after leaving Taunton due to a signal failure and was almost an hour late into London.

Wonder what Ben Fogle made of it?
https://www.instagram.com/p/B9aOzzTHa74/?igshid=ky00zcyslq51
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Marlburian
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« Reply #757 on: March 10, 2020, 06:20:51 pm »

New YouTube video
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smokey
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« Reply #758 on: March 14, 2020, 01:59:54 pm »

Does anybody know why the current curtailed Sleeper service commences/terminates at Plymouth rather Truro?   A Truro start/finish would offer a better customer experience perhaps.

The issue with Truro as a start/finish point for the "Beds" when the Cornish Main is closed beyond Truro.
First the empty Stock of the down sleeper in the morning would have to be Run Round, occupying both up and Down platform lines causing delays to other services before returning to Plymouth for servicing, the same problem arises in the evening when the empty stock arrives to form the Up "Beds"
Now if Platform 4 was still in use at Truro, then the sleeper might be able to run into Truro but shunting the stock would still present a problem.
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SandTEngineer
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« Reply #759 on: June 22, 2020, 10:40:56 am »

Night Riviera to start running again Thursday and Friday nights only from 25 June 2020, but no sleeper berth accomodation: https://www.gwr.com/plan-journey/journey-information/on-board/night-riviera-sleeper

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From 25 June we will start to run an overnight service again on Thursdays and Fridays only, in both directions.

For the first three weeks we won’t be selling cabins, just seats.
After this, we plan to increase the frequency, and start offering cabins, on a gradual basis.

When customers arrive, they will see that the train includes a sleeper carriage and the café. These won’t be used but are there to help keep colleagues up to date with their training. We recommend that you bring drinks and snacks with you.

Services will show in online journey planners as an overnight train, rather than a sleeper.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2020, 10:46:02 am by SandTEngineer » Logged
bobm
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« Reply #760 on: June 22, 2020, 11:12:16 am »

Interesting they are started with seated accommodation only.

Caledonian Sleepers closed their seated coaches early on and have been running a limited service to/from Glasgow/Edinburgh and Inverness with only berths available.

They are planning to increase services in July.

I assume those travelling overnight with GWR will have to wear a face covering for the whole journey.
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broadgage
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« Reply #761 on: June 22, 2020, 12:05:36 pm »

A cynic like me would suspect that GWR want to get rid of the sleeper.
It is a franchise requirement and cant be dropped on a whim, but a prolonged closure for safety reasons should reduce patronage and assist in negotiating away any future obligation to provide the service.

Re-opening a "sleeper" service but without sleeping accommodation is no doubt a good start.

Perhaps the survey to prove that it is no longer wanted has already been done.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
IndustryInsider
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« Reply #762 on: June 22, 2020, 12:26:09 pm »

A cynic like me would suspect that GWR want to get rid of the sleeper.
It is a franchise requirement and cant be dropped on a whim, but a prolonged closure for safety reasons should reduce patronage and assist in negotiating away any future obligation to provide the service.

Re-opening a "sleeper" service but without sleeping accommodation is no doubt a good start.

Perhaps the survey to prove that it is no longer wanted has already been done.

You have been predicting the demise of the sleeper for years - I guess the current crisis facing the industry is certainly the best chance of that actually happening.

Incidentally, the DA3 for GWR plans for extra capacity and a dedicated sleeper booking website for the 'Night Riviera'.  That's not to say some DA3 elements won't be practicable now, but it shows, pre-crisis, it was very much in the longer term plan.
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