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Author Topic: Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onwards  (Read 204330 times)
IndustryInsider
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« Reply #765 on: August 02, 2020, 05:11:54 pm »

The fact that the Night Riviera requires a Government subsidy to operate would perhaps call its popularity into question.

What level of subsidy does it currently receive?
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broadgage
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« Reply #766 on: August 02, 2020, 06:19:46 pm »

I doubt the DfT or the Government would want a rerun of the Save our Sleeper campaign.

Sleeper Trains have become very popular in Britain over the past 15 years and even in Europe there is increasing use of sleepers after an initial decline.

Covid will be over someday.

Would have thought GWR would have taken 6 class 43 HST power cars converted the ETS to 850volt for use on the Sleeper service.

The fact that the Night Riviera requires a Government subsidy to operate would perhaps call its popularity into question.

Popular does not always mean profitable.
The sleeper is popular as in regularly well used.
The sleeper is also popular in the more subjective sense that users like it.

It is not however profitable. Many parts of the railway system require subsidy, including the night Riviera.
A sleeper train conveys far fewer passengers per vehicle, or per ton of gross train weight, than a day train.
It requires dedicated rolling stock.
Providing, changing, and laundering of bedding are extra costs.

West country MPs use it. Drunken MPs can stagger aboard Hard working MPs suffering from a stressful week in London can sleep it of and awake sober refreshed for more hard work meeting their constituents.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
stuving
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« Reply #767 on: August 02, 2020, 06:40:36 pm »

The fact that the Night Riviera requires a Government subsidy to operate would perhaps call its popularity into question.

What level of subsidy does it currently receive?

That won't be a separable figure, will it? It's in the SLC, so has to be run, and the contract doesn't need to set a separate sum of money for it. Whatever revenue gain or loss you ascribe to it (as an accountant) will be an internal matter for GWR. (I'm assuming "current" doesn't mean "in the current emergency".)
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #768 on: August 02, 2020, 06:56:58 pm »

The fact that the Night Riviera requires a Government subsidy to operate would perhaps call its popularity into question.

What level of subsidy does it currently receive?

That won't be a separable figure, will it?

That's kind of why I asked the question, to find out the source of TG's post.  The most recent mention of a subsidy I can see dates back to 2010, so way too long ago to be considered accurate.
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« Reply #769 on: August 03, 2020, 02:06:22 pm »

There is quite a bit of politics around the Night Riviera. FGW tried to get it scrapped a few years ago and there was huge outcry in Cornwall, with a sucessful petition and government backed off. The improved service was strongly supported by Cornwall Council and the Cornwall and Isles of Scilly Local Enterprise Partnership put money into getting the upgrades to the service.
Its an important service for people in Cornwall, and even though it doesn't make money there would be a mighty row  again if there was any attempt to scrap it.
.
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bobm
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« Reply #770 on: August 03, 2020, 05:10:54 pm »

There is also an additional, almost hidden, operational cost with the sleeper. 

It restricts the amount of time Network Rail has to access the line between Exeter and Penzance for maintenance.  Some sections can use single line working depending on the type of work needed but it means in some cases extra nights are needed rather than completing a job in one possession.   

Clearly in the past when there were newspaper, postal and more freights running it wasn't a cost directly attributable to the sleeper.
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Adelante_CCT
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« Reply #771 on: August 12, 2020, 07:19:04 am »

Quote
21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:03 will be terminated at Reading.
It will no longer call at London Paddington.
It will be delayed at Chippenham and is expected to be 168 minutes late.
This is due to a fault on this train.

Has just arrived Reading
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Umberleigh
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« Reply #772 on: August 13, 2020, 12:12:43 pm »

There is also an additional, almost hidden, operational cost with the sleeper. 

It restricts the amount of time Network Rail has to access the line between Exeter and Penzance for maintenance.  Some sections can use single line working depending on the type of work needed but it means in some cases extra nights are needed rather than completing a job in one possession.   

Clearly in the past when there were newspaper, postal and more freights running it wasn't a cost directly attributable to the sleeper.

To be fair, thatís probably the reason it doesnít run on Saturday nights into Sunday mornings, when the great majority of overnight work seems to get done (including Weekend blockades)
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southwest
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« Reply #773 on: August 13, 2020, 06:14:09 pm »

The Night Riviera could be a fantastic service if it was properly supported. The current locomotives for it aren't the best, even though they we're overhauled in 2016 they are back to being problematic again  Huh  The current Mk3s still have slam doors and are against official regulation.

I get the impression that the rolling stock won't be changed and in 5 or 10 years time they'll make out the rolling stock is too old, the service doesn't make money and that IET's are able to provide faster journey's, we'll then get proposals for a later evening Penzance departure and an earlier service than the 05:05 Golden Hind.
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