It's impossible to commute soutbound to Frome in the morning - why?

[whole diary]

[Graz]

Yes, another Frome topic I'm afraid, but I feel this is a very valid point.

As I've said I work close to Frome, and currently have to travel from Bath to Warminster and catch the bus, or catch a bus from Bath to Frome and then get another. The first option is best as I get in to Warminster for 8:10-ish and it's a 15 min wait for the bus to get to the office for 8:45. Annoyingly though, it's more expensive on the train AND bus to get to Warminster than Frome.

Getting the bus from Bath in to Frome is OK- but I end up getting in the office at 9:20ish which is a bit too late, plus there's a complication that the earliest bus is a Faresaver, but the last Faresaver bus leaves Frome at 5:25. That's really too early though and the bus from my office doesn't connect with that one well at all. The earliest First morning bus would get me in past 10am- far too late.

The trains to Frome in the morning are polarised, to say the least. Passengers between Bristol, Swindon and Westbury can get from Westbury to Frome the 6:25, 6:39...or 9:28. Why's there a gap of nearly 3 hours at peak? 6:39 is far too early from Westbury let alone Bath, 9:28 is far too late. There needs to be a train arriving Frome around 8:30, preferably one also arriving about 7:30 to connect with the 7:40 bus.

The evening is better, but rather annoying as the evening commuter service doesn't leave till 18:27 which is a tad late and again, doesn't connect well with the bus. A train at 17:45 to Westbury would be very welcome.

So my question is...why isn't there trains into Frome from Westbury that serve commuters better? There are none in the morning that are any use whatsoever, and the evening timings leave a lot to be desired. This could be a potentially untapped market as there are people who live north of Frome but want to work there. They currently have no option but to take the car- a massive drawback for many like me.

[grahame]

Graham, this in danger of turning into a Grahams (plural) topic 

First HAVE indeed noted a relative sparsity of services at times into Frome and indeed had plans last May to correct the situation from last December.  The idea was that when the Westbury - Southampton shuttle was withdrawn in favour of SWT^▸ (South West Trains)'s Romsey - Salisbury service, the remaining FGW^▸ (First Great Western) workings that run beyond Salisbury but not beyond Southampton, within a few minutes of the SWT service in each case, would provide an additional 3 Salisbury - Swindon (and back) services each day.  Note that would have created extra trains calling at Warminster and , crucially, Dilton Marsh, where they would have provided part of the minimum service required by the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about).

That plan was still-born (anyone who knows the real reason, please let me know; I don't) and as a result some of the Malvern / Worcester area to Westbury services that First were hoping to extend to Frome in excess of the franchise spec, but as a huge piece of common sense, are actually continuing of from Westbury to Warminster and providing the minimum service needed at Dilton Marsh.

[Graz]

Anyone else is welcome to join in to break up the Graham-centricity!

The service from Swindon to Salisbury would have been a win-win situation! Who knows why the idea never made it as it would have a very positive knock-on effect by solving more than one serious problem:

Inadequate services to/from Frome,
Most southbound services from Dilton Marsh only going as far as Warminster (limited journey oppertunities - too inconvenient to go any further south)
Inadequate services to/from Swindon and Westbury

My only suggestion would be that the services (from Frome and Salisbury) could connect well with each other, arriving Westbury roughly the same time or 30 mins apart, so Frome passengers are able to get to Swindon and Salisbury and Warminster passengers to Avoncliff/Freshford/Oldfield/Keynsham and beyond. I'm not sure how easy that would be, but then again that's not really my 'department', so to speak!

One thing to note is that currently, the only viable way to get to Warminster in the morning is using a Portsmouth service so should the timetable change, a new morning peak-time service or two from Westbury to Frome would still be needed.

In relation to the direct Swindon trains, on my journeys back from work I've often heard passengers asking for singles to Chippenham or Swindon from Westbury and Trowbridge, their only option changing at Bath.

[Jim]

The problem is, the peak flow is to Bath, and the people who campaign the most are going to Bath, thus people like yourself loose out. A bit like comuting from Soton-Weymouth really, all the trains that get in early in to Weymouth are all stoppers.

[Lee]

It is worth noting that there is a plan on the table aimed at addressing these issues (link below.)
http://www.raildocuments.org.uk/jan08/salyeoswin2.xls

[Graz]

That certainly would

A crazy idea I just had would be...would it be possible to run PPM^‡(resolve) services to and from Westbury and Frome as a shuttle? 1 would be enough to provide a 1/2 hour service. It seems like a good idea to me because all the connections you would need are to/from Westbury and it could plug big gaps in Frome's timetable relatively easily. The only problem I've thought of would be platform availability at Westbury...

[Lee]

That certainly would

A crazy idea I just had would be...would it be possible to run PPM^‡(resolve) services to and from Westbury and Frome as a shuttle? 1 would be enough to provide a 1/2 hour service. It seems like a good idea to me because all the connections you would need are to/from Westbury and it could plug big gaps in Frome's timetable relatively easily. The only problem I've thought of would be platform availability at Westbury...

Interesting idea in principle, but I just wonder whether a half hourly Westbury-Frome PPM service would conflict with main line and mendip stone trains.

[Shazz]

I was under the impression there were a number of "issues" preventing PPM^‡(resolve)'s operating on lines at the same time as conventional trains...

So i can't see that happening!

[Lee]

I was under the impression there were a number of "issues" preventing PPM^‡(resolve)'s operating on lines at the same time as conventional trains...

So i can't see that happening!

There are issues, and swlines provided some useful info regarding this recently :

As I understand it, there are signalling issues with PPM vehicles sharing lines with conventional trains, as they would have to running into Plymouth.

Not so much signalling issues, but PPMs require a possession to operate in normal service AFAIK^▸ (as far as I know) due to their very light weight and the consequences that could occur with whamming into say, a HST^▸ (High Speed Train)...

Tom

I was also told that there could be a problem with PPM's and track circuits.

Not really an issue - it can be sorted with the use of track circuit actuators, IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly) most of the Sprinter fleet have these...

So it could be possible to resolve such issues, but 2 PPM services each way per hour running on the main line between Westbury-Frome and then past the Whatley Quarry line junction off the Frome line itself could cause pathing conflicts.

[Graz]

That's good news PPMs^‡(resolve) should be able to use the same line. Also bearing in mind the journey time from Westbury to Frome is 14 minutes, 1 train an hour may be adequate to begin with which should only require 1 unit. It would still be triple the amount of trains which call at Frome now

Any idea how often the Whatley Quarry trains pass along the Frome line? I think Paddington-Taunton trains are hourly in each direction, so that shouldn't be too much trouble...

If only it were possible to build another line just for the PPM trains!

[Lee]

Any idea how often the Whatley Quarry trains pass along the Frome line? I think Paddington-Taunton trains are hourly in each direction, so that shouldn't be too much trouble...

There are around 20 Whatley Quarry trains per day. Also, dont forget the freight trains that operate on the main line for part of their journey to/from Merehead and points further west.

While I think that a half hourly PPM^‡(resolve) service would be unrealistic, I believe that with good train planning, an hourly conventional Frome service (ideally running beyond Westbury, and from Frome southwards) should be possible, and that would be my preference over PPM.