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Author Topic: "free wi-fi on trains across England and Wales from 2017"  (Read 14629 times)
stuving
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« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2018, 09:56:52 »

I'm still looking for hard data about this plan to provide on-board Wifi and mobile phone services via a radio link to a kind of base station that NR» (Network Rail - home page) will install on GSM-R (Global System for Mobile communications - Railway.) masts. The fibre network that would connect those boxes to the world has mostly been built already. I can't find anything to tell me how far the plan has got. That may be partly because I do not know what it is called (my friend Google is so very literal-minded).
...
Has anyone else seen anything at all concrete? I've even tried looking for technical articles on how LTE would be used in this application - on the grounds it should be at least a partly-open standard - but found nothing about the UK (United Kingdom).

Well, after a bit of a delay, I have found an answer to my questions - it's called project SWIFT. From ISPreview UK:
Quote
ScotRail Trains Test up to 300Mbps “Superfast” On-Board Wi-Fi Service
Monday, September 18th, 2017

Scottish train operator ScotRail has partnered up with Cisco, CGI (Computer-generated imagery), Network Rail Telecoms and Wittos to conduct a Proof of Concept trial to enable “super-fast” WiFi on trains (Project SWIFT), which could offer data speeds of up to 300Mbps (allegedly the “fastest in-train Wi-Fi service in the world“).
...
The intention behind Project SWIFT, which is being funded by the Rail Safety and Standards Board (RSSB (Rail Safety and Standards Board)) and Innovate UK, is to provide a viable alternative that can offer “internet speeds on the go” of up to 300Mbps (Megabits per second). Currently, those travelling by train between Scotland’s two biggest cities can apparently only “access less than 10% of that capability” (note: c.30Mbps still sounds pretty good for a train but that capacity has to be shared between many users).

At present the new technology has only been implemented on a full-scale train at a test track in Stratford-upon-Avon, although it will now see a “limited duration roll-out” on one of the current fleet of ScotRail trains that operate services between Glasgow and Edinburgh.

The project will utilise existing trackside fibre optic cable to backhaul data from trackside masts. The masts will use unlicensed Wi-Fi spectrum to connect trains to the fibre, with a lossless session handover between masts as low as 2ms (milliseconds). Both existing and newly installed masts will be used along the Edinburgh-Glasgow route to ensure that consistent coverage can be trialled along the line, regardless of tunnels and cuttings.
...
The proof of concept trial will commence later this year, and run until the end of March 2018. After that a decision will be made about whether or not to roll-out the service to more trains, not only in Scotland but also other parts of the United Kingdom.

Project SWIFT hopes to highlight how high-speed in-carriage connectivity will improve the experience for passengers and help train operators provide better, more reliable and profitable services. The project will also investigate what becomes possible when you add data and insight to connections.

So it seems that Network Rail went to talk to the parties concerned with the other bits of their proposed system, on the train and elsewhere, and did not find a single ready-made solution. So they have looked for a partner, and found Cisco, which is a bit of a surprise as they are not known as a radio company. I have not found anything to tell me what the radio link is - I presume "LTE" is still likely to be the label, though it's not very specific, and one source said "unlicensed spectrum" (likewise).

« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 14:19:02 by stuving » Logged
stuving
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« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2018, 10:08:05 »

On a rather more depressing note, more net/web/phone access on trains means more of being a captive audience for what other people want to get out of you. From 1to1.link:
Quote
Project SWIFT Open Innovation Challenge

The Project SWIFT Open Innovation Challenge is an exciting part of the Innovate UK (United Kingdom) & RSSB (Rail Safety and Standards Board) project enabling super-fast Wi-Fi on trains. The objective is to enhance passenger experience in rail travel and Project SWIFT is looking for SMEs to join the ride.

As the first project of its kind, the Project SWIFT project will utilise existing trackside fibre to enable Wi-Fi backhaul, which will require advanced service management and session handover at a minimal 2 milliseconds. Besides aiming to provide 300MB of consistent connectivity, which has to date only been demonstrated in lab environments, Project SWIFT will launch the scotrail.1to1.link, a WiFi connected app store providing real-time open APIs powered by Wittos Connected Intelligence platform. The 1to1.link platform opens opportunities to digitally connect and engage with onboard passengers in a whole new way.

The Project SWIFT Open Innovation Challenge is looking for developers to build applications to leverage the 1to1.link open API platform to address three problem statements in the areas of destination marketing, disruption management & wildcard. You will be able to access a unique set of real-time APIs and engage with a cross-section of stakeholders during an 8-week virtual incubator.

This proof of concept project is a collaboration between consortium partners: ScotRail, Cisco, Level 3 Communications, CGI (Computer-generated imagery), Wittos, Intersection Analytics.

Sign up now for access to the Project SWIFT Open Innovation Challenge API and sample data

There's a prize for anyone who knows what "the areas of destination marketing, disruption management & wildcard" are in this context (from 1to1.link, not me, obviously).
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« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2018, 14:19:00 »

It would be great if SE Trains and GTR even contemplated fitting WiFi, travellers on GWR (Great Western Railway) by and large have a reasonably good free WiFi if you use Virgin Westcoast as a standard passenger you have to pay for WiFi.

The DfT» (Department for Transport - about) on the Thameslink Class 700 failed to specify passenger WiFi in the procurement spec despite Siemens and at the FCC (First Capital Connect) pointing out the folly of their ways ..................... now DfT are having to pay Siemens to retro fit WiFi and GTR to operate it ................... oh an pay NR» (Network Rail - home page) to crash fit the infrastructure ................. you just cannot make this stuff up
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ChrisB
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« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2018, 20:47:02 »

Virgin West Coast now provide free wifi I understand as long as you book through their own website
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« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2018, 22:37:11 »

Virgin West Coast now provide free wifi I understand as long as you book through their own website

Which is pants compared to GWR (Great Western Railway).

Note the cuddly warm approach to travellers of a certain non-dom  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2018, 09:34:13 »

Actually, their wifivid far more stable and unrestricted than GWRs (Great Western Railway) is.
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2018, 09:48:59 »

Actually, their wifivid far more stable and unrestricted than GWRs (Great Western Railway) is.

I agree, GWR's is often hopeless.
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« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2018, 12:44:14 »

I used it for the first time coming back from Swansea last week and it was good at the start of the journey. Less so later on. I don't know if that was because the train was packed or I'd used up my data allowance. I wasn't really paying attention but I think it said after 15Mb of data it would be throttled. I did read that first as 15mbs download but pretty sure it was data. Not a very generous amount and I don't know how much it throttled it back after hitting that.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #23 on: February 26, 2018, 13:01:01 »

its data. And the throttled speed depends on the number accessing the wifi at the time.

Either way, if you have 4G, it's quicker when available.
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grahame
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« Reply #24 on: February 26, 2018, 13:04:14 »

... said after 15Mb of data it would be throttled ...Not a very generous amount and I don't know how much it throttled it back after hitting that.

I wonder at the graphic of the IET (Intercity Express Train) that comes up as you log in, and the advert for 1st class upgrades (on a 158 too!) and wonder if they include that in your allowance.    Strikes me that with a simpler login screen with less graphic content, more WiFi capacity might just be available for the 'real use' ...
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stuving
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« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2020, 17:19:30 »

While there's been general progress in providing on-board WiFi on more trains, the big promises don't seem to have been met yet. As far as I know, all TOCs (Train Operating Company) are buying a backhaul service from MNOs. But work has continued on railway-specific radio links to trackside infrastructure, and there was an OFCOM report in 2018 looking at potentially suitable spectrum (update due on Monday).

Now DfT» (Department for Transport - about) are stumping up £200,000 for an antenna to fit to OLE (Overhead Line Equipment, more often "OHLE") structures: 
Quote

New funding for antenna prototype will help avoid internet blackouts on train journeys.
Published 24 July 2020   
  •    Transport Secretary announces £200,000 towards research into developing an innovative antenna prototype for rail gantries, helping to make internet blackouts on the commute a thing of the past
  •    government-backed research has found that updating existing infrastructure is an affordable solution to improving mobile connectivity for passengers
  •    telecomms service providers urged to work with Network Rail to come up with innovative designs for trial phase of project

There was a study done for DfT by Mott MacDonald, described as a feasibility study, and DfT have published what appears to be the resulting report. However, I'd say that is just a list of constraints and issues, and the necessary approvals, standards etc. It does not address feasibility - i.e. "will it work?". In any case, that list of don'ts and don'ts is pretty daunting.

« Last Edit: July 24, 2020, 21:04:44 by stuving » Logged
Clan Line
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« Reply #26 on: July 24, 2020, 21:01:46 »

Very silly passing thought................

Why don't they use the 25KV lines in the same way that domestic premises use Powerline Adapters on the 240V lines round the home ?
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TonyN
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« Reply #27 on: July 24, 2020, 21:48:37 »

So all we need to do now is electrify all lines so that the Ariels can be added to the gantries. Grin
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TonyN
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« Reply #28 on: July 25, 2020, 09:20:32 »

I forgot to say in the last post that the electrification would have to be 25Kv OLE (Overhead Line Equipment, more often "OHLE") on all lines of course. Including changing all third rail DC (Direct Current) to 25Kv OLE.
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eXPassenger
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« Reply #29 on: July 25, 2020, 13:28:18 »

Very silly passing thought................

Why don't they use the 25KV lines in the same way that domestic premises use Powerline Adapters on the 240V lines round the home ?

Powerline runs through fixed wiring.  Trying to run an interference free permanent connection between the pantograph and OLE (Overhead Line Equipment, more often "OHLE") wiring would be impossible.  Every time you see a spark from a pantograph that would be a dropped connection and a major burst of interference.  You would also lose the connection in neutral sections.

On a wider issue there would be significant radio noise emitted from the wiring.  This noise is one of the reasons that National Grid were opposed when they wanted to use their cables for internet connectivity.
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