First Group on the ECML

[whole diary]

[ChrisB]

Railway Gazette reports thus

UK^▸ (United Kingdom): FirstGroup has applied to the Office of Rail Regulation for track access rights which would enable it to launch an open access passenger service between London King^s Cross, Stevenage, Newcastle, Morpeth and Edinburgh from 2018.

The service of five return trains/day with journey times of 4 h to 4^ h would be designed specifically to encourage travellers to switch from air to rail. FirstGroup says two-thirds of journeys between London and Edinburgh are made by air, and because its proposal ^specifically targets segments of the market where the rail industry^s share of the market is currently less than 50%, our proposals are not primarily abstractive and will grow the overall rail market^.

Stevenage station is ^close to Luton and Stansted airports^, while Morpeth ^is close to Newcastle airport^, which would ^help potential air travellers consider rail as an option^.

FirstGroup said fares would be ^highly competitive with budget air carriers^, with free wi-fi and onboard catering in ^one high-quality class of travel on brand new, state-of-the-art rolling stock comparable to other trains being introduced on the route.^ These would be five-car electric trainsets operating at 200 km/h with ^performance characteristics that will as a minimum match^ the Class 800/801 rolling stock currently being built by Hitachi for use by franchised operator Virgin Trains East Coast.

FirstGroup^s track access application has been submitted by East Coast Trains Ltd, a new train operator which would operate under a new brand. ECTL would be a wholly-owned subsidiary of First Rail Holdings Ltd, which currently holds three passenger rail franchises and open access operator Hull Trains.

^These innovative plans will give customers travelling between London, the northeast of England and Edinburgh an attractive alternative to flying^, said FirstGroup CEO^▸ (Chief Executive Officer) Tim O^Toole. ^We hope to entice passengers away from budget airlines through our low fares and high-quality trains. Open access operators can really add value and create passenger loyalty by serving niche markets. Our current company First Hull Trains remains an exceptional example of how passengers can benefit from this type of operation. We have put our compelling case to the ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about) and we are looking forward to hearing the outcome of our application.^

A decision on the application for track access rights is expected within 12 months

At first I thought it was a good use for their (five?) owned HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) after IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.)....but it seems they're offering new build electrics - from where, I wonder?

[a-driver]

Being an open access operator they could in theory buy their own trains, something a franchised operator can not do. The beauty of open access is there's no government interference or control. They're free to run the service how they please. 

[ellendune]

They're free to run the service how they please. 

Provided they can get the paths

[Network SouthEast]

First will soon be procuring new electronic trains for thier Hull Trains open access operation. So if successful in their Edinburgh to London application the trains required might be part of one larger order.

On the other hand, previous applications from London to Edinburgh have failed. I'm not sure what will be different about First's proposal.

[Rhydgaled]

Being an open access operator they could in theory buy their own trains, something a franchised operator can not do.

Not true, I believe both types of operator are perfectly entitled to buy their own trains. In fact, Arriva Trains Wales once bought some mrk2 carriages (but then hardly ever used them, sadly, and they have since been sold on). However, neither have the long-term security needed to get a return from buying brand-new stock.

First will soon be procuring new electronic trains for thier Hull Trains open access operation. So if successful in their Edinburgh to London application the trains required might be part of one larger order.

One wonders why, with the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about)'s narrow-mindedness meaning much of the IC225 fleet looks like being homeless, First haven't decided to lease some of them yet instead of procuring new trains.

[a-driver]

Being an open access operator they could in theory buy their own trains, something a franchised operator can not do.

Not true, I believe both types of operator are perfectly entitled to buy their own trains. In fact, Arriva Trains Wales once bought some mrk2 carriages (but then hardly ever used them, sadly, and they have since been sold on). However, neither have the long-term security needed to get a return from buying brand-new stock.

First will soon be procuring new electronic trains for thier Hull Trains open access operation. So if successful in their Edinburgh to London application the trains required might be part of one larger order.

One wonders why, with the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about)'s narrow-mindedness meaning much of the IC225 fleet looks like being homeless, First haven't decided to lease some of them yet instead of procuring new trains.

Arriva Trains Wales didn't buy those MkII's.  The parent company, DB^» (Deutsche Bahn - German State Railway - about) Regio bought and they still own them, they're currently stored at Long Marston.  The MKII's were available for sale or scrap at the time.  Technicality I know!  But as you said, an operator couldn't get a return from investing in brand new stock due anyway due to the short length but.......
1.  If the franchisee buys new trains to replace its existing fleet it has obvious problems when the franchise ends or the company defaults.... and,
2.  If a franchise were able to buy new trains, under the name of the franchise, and then defaulted, the DfT would be saddled with the cost of these new trains
Remember as well, First landed themselves in hot water, when it purchased 8 HST^▸ (High Speed Train) sets direct from the leasing company after the DfT refused to let FGW^▸ (First Great Western) lease them 

As for the IC225 sets.  Remove the Class 91 and DVTs^‡(resolve) and replace them with new build diesel engine power cars and put them to use on FGW to replace the current HSTs operating to the South West??

[ellendune]

Remember as well, First landed themselves in hot water, when it purchased 8 HST^▸ (High Speed Train) sets direct from the leasing company after the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) refused to let FGW^▸ (First Great Western) lease them 

You mean DfT did not want FGW to increase capacity on the route, but FGW went ahead and did so anyway.  If so surely that knocks BNM's arguments into touch. 

[ChrisB]

Yup, I reckon so. That's a definite example of Firstgroup/FGW^▸ (First Great Western) directly investing in rolling stock

[Rhydgaled]

Arriva Trains Wales didn't buy those MkII's.  The parent company, DB^» (Deutsche Bahn - German State Railway - about) Regio bought and they still own them, they're currently stored at Long Marston.

That is very much not what I've been told over on RailUK Forum. The story was a Mr Bunker (Arriva Trains Wales MD at the time I believe) made the decision to buy the stock and got sacked for it. Apparently this Mr Bunker told a rail-user group meeting in Wrexham that the stock was "bought to relieve overcrowding on routes". I'm pretty sure at least some of the coaches in question have been sold on because I've seen photos of them being used in charter trains after Arriva Trains Wales withdrew them.

[JayMac]

Remember as well, First landed themselves in hot water, when it purchased 8 HST^▸ (High Speed Train) sets direct from the leasing company after the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) refused to let FGW^▸ (First Great Western) lease them 

You mean DfT did not want FGW to increase capacity on the route, but FGW went ahead and did so anyway.  If so surely that knocks BNM's arguments into touch. 

Rolling stock, not infrastructure. And 12 power cars & 42 Mk3s - 6x 7 car sets at most (5x 8 with spares), not 8. And First Rail Holdings Ltd made the purchase, not FGW.

I'm also led to believe the off-lease purchase was to secure them as part of First Group's bid for the Intercity East Coast franchise starting May 2005, not to increase capacity on the Greater Western franchise. That allegedly made the DfT unhappy and may have been instrumental in First Group failing to win that franchise. It was just fortunate that they ended up with FGW.

[a-driver]

Remember as well, First landed themselves in hot water, when it purchased 8 HST^▸ (High Speed Train) sets direct from the leasing company after the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) refused to let FGW^▸ (First Great Western) lease them 

You mean DfT did not want FGW to increase capacity on the route, but FGW went ahead and did so anyway.  If so surely that knocks BNM's arguments into touch. 

Rolling stock, not infrastructure. And 12 power cars & 42 Mk3s - 6x 7 car sets at most (5x 8 with spares), not 8. And First Rail Holdings Ltd made the purchase, not FGW.

I'm also led to believe the off-lease purchase was to secure them as part of First Group's bid for the Intercity East Coast franchise starting May 2005, not to increase capacity on the Greater Western franchise. That allegedly made the DfT unhappy and may have been instrumental in First Group failing to win that franchise. It was just fortunate that they ended up with FGW.

I wasn't 100% sure on the exact numbers.  Incidentally though,  First Rail Holdings Ltd has a registered address of 50 Eastbourne Terrace, Paddington, London, W2 6LG which has an obvious connection to FGW.  As I've said before, operators can't own train so this is how First Rail Holdings came about.
But who knows what First's intentions where with those extra HSTs though, they were bought in June 2004 (I think) and refurbished with MTU^▸ (Motor Traction Unit) engines in 2006 which First would have paid for and by this time GNER^▸ (Great North Eastern Railways) had received an extension to their franchise.  It's a very risky business move to make a speculative purchase of all those vehicles for a franchise they might not win and secondly, spend millions on an unnecessary refurbishment (an MTU engine alone is ^350k a piece) when they could have simply disposed of the vehicles after failing to secure the East Coast

[JayMac]

Also a strategic purchase to prevent others buying them.

[a-driver]

But they were still available for lease, they weren't put up for sale at the time by the leasing company.  The DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) had earmarked those HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) for another operator, can't remember who, but if the DfT intended them for the East Coast then buying them wouldn't have been the cleverest of moves!! Who knows, FGW^▸ (First Great Western) could have been the fall back option

[JayMac]

It was a long time ago and my memory is hazy. I do remember reading something about the deal in the railway press.

At the time of purchase First Group ran 5 TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) and was bidding for 2 more. Greater Western was one of those up for renewal. Buying them specifically for FGW^▸ (First Great Western) in October 2004 would also not have been the wisest of moves, as the franchise award wasn't to be announced until December 2005.

It's possible First Group were covering many bases and the FRH owned HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) ending up with FGW was by accident rather than design.

[old original]

Not sure if this has been posted elsewhere already, but it appears that First have created an new open access operator to run on the ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line) from October
East Coast Trains Limited

https://www.firstgroupplc.com/about-firstgroup/uk-rail/eastcoast.aspx