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Author Topic: Germanwings plane 4U 9525 crashes in French Alps - no survivors  (Read 12557 times)
chrisr_75
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« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2015, 14:02:09 »

Beginning to look like the tragic results of the irrational actions of someone suffering from clinical depression.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32087203

Quote
Alps crash co-pilot Andreas Lubitz hid the details of an existing illness from his employers, German prosecutors say.

They said they had found torn-up sick notes in his homes, including one covering the day of the crash.

In their report, prosecutors in the city of Duesseldorf did not disclose the nature of Mr Lubitz's illness.

German media have said internal aviation authority documents suggest he suffered depression and required ongoing assessment.
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TonyK
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« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2015, 00:06:47 »

This is a tragedy and a disaster, and quite possibly the worst case of homicide by a single person in modern times.

No air incident ever happens because of one cause alone. There may be people registered with this forum who suffer clinical depression (what is non-clinical depression?), most of whom would not wish to harm themselves, let alone take anyone else with them.

If it does indeed turn out that the co-pilot deliberately flew the aircraft into a mountain, and the early published evidence points that way, then this looks like more than depression and more towards an acute psychotic episode, triggered by what? we don't know. But contributing to that are the other facts - a co-pilot was left alone in a locked flight deck, despite having only 600 hours flying time, and the pilot could not regain entry. That last factor is a direct result of the reaction to the 9/11 murders, and it will be a matter for statisticians to decide whether the measures introduced then have saved more lives than they have lost. Additionally, commercial pilots are examined for ability every 6 months, and for medical soundness every year, and constantly monitored without their knowledge in between. Flight crew are trained to monitor each other and report doubts, and in bigger airlines (BA» (British Airways - about) included) do not fly together routinely. A crew with vast experience may never have met each other before gathering in the briefing room before a flight, meaning they are less inclined to cover for each others' shortcomings if they have any. Commercial pilots are probably the most monitored and regulated profession in the world.

The first check before any flight - A380 from Heathrow to Dubai or Piper Cherokee from Filton (in the olden days) to Kemble - is given the acronym "I'M SAFE". Am I affected in any way by Illness, Medication, Stress, Alcohol, or Fatigue, and have I Eaten enough for the journey? A  crew member hell-bent on self-destruction, and for whatever reason mindless as to the fate of the other occupants of the aircraft, is hardly likely to declare himself unfit to fly. Just as I did not on at least one occasion when I was not sufficiently rested to take the controls, but managed alright, as we have all done in a car at times. The system whereby an airline pilot is tested to the limits annually, but there is no mechanism to make sure that he does not hand in medical certificates unless he wants to, is likely to come under the spotlight, but only briefly.

We have heard that the pilot concerned took time out of his jet flying training to deal with mental health issues, but returned to complete his course. I am sure that would have been after the most rigorous examination and evaluation, but nothing can filter out every problem. I was diagnosed with cancer 13 years ago, luckily a good one. The doctor showed me X-rays, CT scans, blood tests, biopsy results, the lot - all showed this awful life-threatening illness gaining ground. I had surgery, chemotherapy then radiotherapy, then more X-rays, CT scans, and blood tests. They showed it had gone, and subsequent tests confirmed it hadn't returned. If only you could do that process in a mind. In the meantime, I would hope that a diagnosis of depression at some time in a person's life would not debar them from any particular career.

The illness should not be the deciding factor. The management of that illness and the effect on the person's ability to perform their function should be the yardstick. The higher the risk involved, the greater the scrutiny, but let us not write off people who have suffered depression from what could be a huge swathe of professions.

FTR (Fitness To Run), I do not suffer depression, so far as I am aware. I see a lot of people who either do, or claim to do so, or have been told they do when they don't, or have been told that they don't when they do. I can't easily tell them apart, so leave it to the experts. They either know best, or can be sued.

An Airbus takes off or lands every 2  seconds somewhere in the world. Whilst it does, 3000 Boeing 737s are in the air. "Suicide by plane" is not a singular incident - there are at least 12 in the last 2 decades, including possibly MH370 - it's just that none have been major airliners in Europe.

The agony being felt by relatives cannot be imagined. I am due to go on holiday soon with my wife, our three children, and all of our grandchildren. I do not spend time thinking about the possible consequences, but three generations of at least one family died in that crash.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2015, 12:04:24 by Four Track, Now! » Logged

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ChrisB
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« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2015, 13:30:11 »

His girlfriend had recently departed his flat it was reported.
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Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2015, 17:33:23 »

Hmmm. Not sure. There's no one left alive to refute the claim that the pax knew nothing about what was happening until right at the end when screaming was heard. Likely reported this way to alleviate the relatives suffering, but it could quite possibly be the case that pax worked out quite quickly why the pilot was banging on the door & getting anxious....and they spent the last 20 minutes screaming their heads off. I hope not, of course, but....

Hmm, indeed. That scenario really doesn't bear thinking about.  Shocked

Simply for the record: that final descent from cruising height to impact took some eight minutes, rather than 20 - and it sadly seems rather likely that at least some passengers would have noticed such an unusually rapid descent being made, only moments after reaching cruising altitude.  Lips sealed

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William Huskisson MP (Member of Parliament) was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830.  Many more have died in the same way since then.  Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.

"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner."  Discuss.
chrisr_75
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« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2015, 19:56:51 »

No air incident ever happens because of one cause alone. There may be people registered with this forum who suffer clinical depression (what is non-clinical depression?), most of whom would not wish to harm themselves, let alone take anyone else with them.

Used the term clinical as the person in question has been reported to have received a diagnosis & treatment from a doctor for his condition.
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TonyK
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« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2015, 11:53:12 »


Used the term clinical as the person in question has been reported to have received a diagnosis & treatment from a doctor for his condition.

That makes sense.
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Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2016, 20:36:57 »

A video news update, from the BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Quote
Germanwings report says pilot confidentiality 'should be relaxed'

French investigators have called for medical confidentiality to be relaxed for pilots, in the wake of the Germanwings disaster in 2015.

It was revealed a doctor recommended that Andreas Lubitz, the German pilot who crashed an airliner into the Alps, should be treated in a psychiatric hospital, two weeks before the disaster, but his employer was never alerted.

Mr Lubitz, who had a history of severe depression, deliberately brought down the Germanwings plane, killing everyone on board.

Lucy Williamson reports.
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William Huskisson MP (Member of Parliament) was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830.  Many more have died in the same way since then.  Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.

"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner."  Discuss.
TonyK
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« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2016, 12:32:52 »

A video news update, from the BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Quote
Germanwings report says pilot confidentiality 'should be relaxed'

French investigators have called for medical confidentiality to be relaxed for pilots, in the wake of the Germanwings disaster in 2015.


This sounds a very good idea, but raises issues. Would a doctor necessarily know that he is treating a pilot? Also, would a sick pilot possibly refrain from seeking medical attention if he thought that so doing may cost him his livelihood? Hard cases make for bad law.  This needs careful thought and consultation within the aviation community. The issue of locked doors that resisted every attempt by desperate people, trying to get through, also needs further thought.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2016, 12:41:58 »

All pilots to be registered with airline doctor as well as their own personal physician. Both doctors talk to each other, thus the airline doctor can liaise with the airline. That would work.
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ellendune
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« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2016, 19:57:48 »

But would that top a pilot talking to their own doctor?
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ChrisB
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« Reply #25 on: March 14, 2016, 20:01:53 »

Depends if he wants any treatment?

In this case, he did, several times. The latest just two weeks before
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