British Pullman 13th May 2015 at Bristol Temple Meads.

[whole diary]

[JayMac]

Saw this railtour when passing through Bristol TM^‡(resolve) yesterday. Must travel on this one day...

Southern Railway Merchant Navy Class 35028 'Clan Line' doing the honours.

[Chris from Nailsea]

... and not a ginger ale in sight, in picture 5: excellent! 

[stuving]

That shows it as it was when it arrived. The schedule said the engine was to turn round via the triangle at Bristol, after the diesel at the back had hauled the whole train into the depot. For some reason that never happened, so on the return trip the engine ran tender first.

[Chris from Nailsea]

Please pardon my ignorance / possible lack of attention in the past, but how far can an engine go 'tender first' - and at what speed?

[bobm]

I don't have a definitive answer, but there are pictures on the internet of 34046 Braunton travelling tender first between Exeter and Par last year.

[Chris from Nailsea]

Blimey! 

[JayMac]

That shows it as it was when it arrived. The schedule said the engine was to turn round via the triangle at Bristol, after the diesel at the back had hauled the whole train into the depot. For some reason that never happened, so on the return trip the engine ran tender first.

Not just a triangle at Bristol. Also a loop with a pointy bit near Bedminster. Sort of more like a speech bubble than a triangle.



Two options at Bristol for a steam loco that's arrived from the east. Detach and reverse up the Up Filton to Dr Days Junction then forward round the Rhubarb Curve to North Somerset Junction and backward onto the opposite end of the carriages in the station. Or detach and head out toward Bedminster and then reverse right round the St Phillips Marsh loop and, again, back on the carriages.

[bobm]

According to Uksteam - http://www.uksteam.info/tours/t15/t0513a.htm the plan involved going west and east of the station and up to Lawrence Hill.

[JayMac]

When the British Pullman arrived at Temple Meads there was no diesel in rear. I saw it come in.

Also I didn't see any diesel at Barton Hill or looped in the station.

BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) Standard Class 70000 'Britannia' was on shed at Barton Hill and appeared to be in steam, but I'm not sure she was diagrammed for the British Pullman, so may just have been coincidence a second kettle was in Bristol yesterday.

[stuving]

According to Uksteam - http://www.uksteam.info/tours/t15/t0513a.htm the plan involved going west and east of the station and up to Lawrence Hill.

Looking at that movement in RTT^» (Real Time Trains - website) (087D, not as numbered in uksteam.info), its start and end at the East Depot show in realtime, but nothing in between. That could mean anything or nothing, of course. But she did come through Wokingham backwards, so I assume the 3-point turn did not happen.

Looking closer at the movements as described on uksteam.info, the Bristol ECS^▸ (Empty Coaching Stock) moves (507M and 508M) did not involve a diesel. Again, that omission may not be reliable evidence, though for the moves in and out of Victoria the diesel is shown. Actually dragging a diesel behind a commercial steam tour is pretty rare, I think.

I can't imagine the train being propelled from the Carriage Line at Bristol West to the East Depot, even on the Down Through, but that is what 507M suggests. Which leaves plan C - running round the train in the Carriage Line or in the station (Platform 9 or 3, whichever you believe). Or something.

[Red Squirrel]

Please pardon my ignorance / possible lack of attention in the past, but how far can an engine go 'tender first' - and at what speed?

I found this article which goes into, with what to my mind is actually rather too much detail, the practicalities of tender-first running. The short answer is 'as far as you want, but slower'.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that a 4575 class could go 60mph chimney first, and 45mph bunker first, as a not very good example given that that's a tank engine... the technical problems include stability, coal dust in yer eyes, who's supposed to be watching out for the boards (as we're now effectively left-hand drive, or right-hand for a Southern loco) and many others.

[broadgage]

Please pardon my ignorance / possible lack of attention in the past, but how far can an engine go 'tender first' - and at what speed?

On strictly mechanical grounds, a steam locomotive works the same whether running forwards or in reverse, all the moving parts should work in the same way in either direction.

In practice though, running "backwards" is avoided when possible, the view is inferior and the fireman would be largely facing the fire and have no forward view when so doing.
If the coaling was excessive or carelessly done, the crew might be struck by coal falling from the tender.
The permitted speed was often reduced when running tender first, either due to the reduced sighting, or because the small wheeled tender at the front was considered less stable.

Running tender first was preferred in the exceptional case of filming from the footplate as smoke and steam would not obstruct the view, but was otherwise avoided if possible.

[TaplowGreen]

I saw it just outside Reading, 10 am-ish, very impressive!

[Red Squirrel]

...the view is inferior...

Not necessarily - for example, there's not much of a view going forwards in many classes (that pesky boiler thing gets right in the way); the view over the tender or bunker can be better.