Channel 4 Dispatches: Are you paying too much? 1st June 8pm

[whole diary]

[paul7575]

During the Reading blockade over the Easter weekend, I remember looking at Realtimetrains for my train back from Waterloo to Exeter St Davids. I was amazed at the difference between the GBTT^▸ (Great British Time Table) and WTT^▸ (Working Time-Table) timings - departure from Waterloo was shown as 1659 on GBTT, yet WTT showed 1707 and we actually left at 1708.

I got an explanation after the first diverts, that the different public and working times were artificially there to force booking engines to work properly.  Something to do with not wanting people to be offered connections into or out of SWT^▸ (South West Trains) services somewhere. I forget the details though.

Paul

[ChrisB]

3)I don't know what additional facilities staff have access to (above joe public) hopefully someone can comment here.

Yes, they can access some software not available to the public - I forget the acronym though (help me someone!). 'Realtime trains' for Pros, basically, plus messaging direct from control, I believe

[BerkshireBugsy]

3)I don't know what additional facilities staff have access to (above joe public) hopefully someone can comment here.

Yes, they can access some software not available to the public - I forget the acronym though (help me someone!). 'Realtime trains' for Pros, basically, plus messaging direct from control, I believe

Thanks ChrisB - I know that in the ticket offices they have access to a graphical representation of the relevant segments of track showing where services are at a given time because the local staff occasionally show me this when there are delays. Is this type of display (which I don't know the name of but looks like the track layout panel in a signal box) available on employee mobiles?

[grahame]

During the Reading blockade over the Easter weekend, I remember looking at Realtimetrains for my train back from Waterloo to Exeter St Davids. I was amazed at the difference between the GBTT^▸ (Great British Time Table) and WTT^▸ (Working Time-Table) timings - departure from Waterloo was shown as 1659 on GBTT, yet WTT showed 1707 and we actually left at 1708.

I got an explanation after the first diverts, that the different public and working times were artificially there to force booking engines to work properly.  Something to do with not wanting people to be offered connections into or out of SWT^▸ (South West Trains) services somewhere. I forget the details though.

Paul

Sounds logical, Paul

"They" want people to catch the :00 South West Trains if changing at (say) Basingstoke for Micheldever.  But if the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) train is shown at the WTT time (:07) the online table would offer that.  So by scheduling at :59, the FGW train becomes a slower journey with an earlier departure.

Can't help feeling that a system that truly models travel would be better that kludging the current system.   This sounds like a similar excuse to the one we get for the TransWilts, where we would like advance tickets to be sold on the Cheltenham train with plenty of connection time, and same platform connection, at Swindon.   But people get put onto the busier trains following the Cheltenham, with a tight connection that often misses as with a long walk at Swindon.   Bit of an"own goal" by the rail industry!

[Louis94]

During the Reading blockade over the Easter weekend, I remember looking at Realtimetrains for my train back from Waterloo to Exeter St Davids. I was amazed at the difference between the GBTT^▸ (Great British Time Table) and WTT^▸ (Working Time-Table) timings - departure from Waterloo was shown as 1659 on GBTT, yet WTT showed 1707 and we actually left at 1708.

I got an explanation after the first diverts, that the different public and working times were artificially there to force booking engines to work properly.  Something to do with not wanting people to be offered connections into or out of SWT^▸ (South West Trains) services somewhere. I forget the details though.

Paul

Sounds logical, Paul

"They" want people to catch the :00 South West Trains if changing at (say) Basingstoke for Micheldever.  But if the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) train is shown at the WTT time (:07) the online table would offer that.  So by scheduling at :59, the FGW train becomes a slower journey with an earlier departure.

There was not an issue of changing out of the FGW service at Basingstoke as it was pick up only. I believe the poster is referring to going to Basingstoke on the previous SWT at (xx:05) and getting onto the FGW train there (Which the booking engine would think the xx:05 has overtaken) - common misconception it seems, as what they did causes just that with the departure at xx:59. Was fixed this time around with the use of differentials at Basingstoke to ensure the minimum connection time was not met.

Differentials at Waterloo were down to the nature of the trains path, train 2 minutes ahead and 2 minutes behind - was crucial the train left as soon as possible behind the xx:05.

[IndustryInsider]

Yes, they can access some software not available to the public - I forget the acronym though (help me someone!). 'Realtime trains' for Pros, basically, plus messaging direct from control, I believe

Genius, Genius Mobile and TyrellCheck are all industry only software that is available to certain staff.  There's also real-time mapping software (the acronym for which has slipped my mind) showing the location of trains in a similar way to that shown on the railcam.uk.site supporter site and opentraintimes.com site do, but in a little more detail and covering more of the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) network (though both of those third party sites are catching up quickly).

Drivers remain the only large group of staff that don't have access to all of those sites (they only have Genius Mobile if they have a personal smartphone) as there has been a delay in issuing them with tablets whilst discussions taking place about the general issue of tablets to them which the union are doing their best to scupper.  Basically they want the drivers to receive a 'technology' payment in agreement to use them.  Many drivers just want the technology ASAP to make their job easier and aren't worried about getting paid extra for using it!

[ChrisB]

Drivers to Union reps.....get your feelings known!

[Adelante_CCT]

Thanks ChrisB - I know that in the ticket offices they have access to a graphical representation of the relevant segments of track showing where services are at a given time because the local staff occasionally show me this when there are delays.

They have one of those at the bottom of the escalators on platform 7 at Reading

[JayMac]

And one on the wall next to the Lost Property Office in the subway at Bristol Temple Meads.

[Oxman]

Its called "P2" (well it was when I worked for FGW^▸ (First Great Western) a few years ago!).

[Ollie]

Stations would have P2. Control in Swindon have P2, but also CCF which is much better in my opinion.
Some stations also have screens dotted around which uses part of the Genius Mobile site (Tornado Mobile) - Tornado Mobile is mobile friendly too and doesn't have to just be on a desktop.

[paul7575]

[Different times for Waterloo departures]

In fact now I think about it the time I heard this stuff about tweaking the times to avoid journey planner issues was when they were running via Staines and Virginia Water etc, so they'd have been vastly different timings to the latest ones anyway...

Paul

[thetrout]

This is possibly why I can't get a job in the railway industry...

I would have taken the trainer to task as it was a clear contradiction. I don't agree that he corrected himself at all. He seemed to just add confusion and complication to the task at hand. Whilst we were only shown snippets and sections of footage. The reporter should have asked him to clarify his earlier specific example when he tried to rectify himself. This reminds me of when FGW^▸ (First Great Western) were picking and choosing the rules to suit them when 2 contradicting "rules" collided and they took the option which was more beneficial to them than the passenger.

However I think the example of the return vs single example of Reading - Paddington he listed was a rather damming admission and I find myself asking why such an issue exists. ^2 extra per day could easily be ^40 a month which in turn is ^480 a year........

I also thought Northern's response regarding the ticket machine was poor. This is also an issue I've experienced myself and I've had some good feedback and some not so good feedback when raising the issues.

However it was very impressive that the Northern Ticket Office saved the reporter ^18 on a ticket to Bristol.

I also think the undercover reporting was reasonably accurate based on how FGW are being run at this present time. I also agree there are some excellent staff out there who go above and beyond. But I do have issue with staff / TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) not following the rules when they need to and the passenger plays by the rules correctly.

Finally the comment from the Transport Focus chap was most intriguing... I am often told by rail staff I know more than they do and that "I am handy to have around when it starts going wrong..."

[TaplowGreen]

Speaking as someone who does not work on the railway and is not an enthusiast, but whose life is impacted by its frailties I have to say that I found the whole programme (which I watched last night) pretty shocking.........I wonder how many other organisations would get away with using methods which are at best disingenous to massage performance figures, failing to fulfil regulatory obligations to sell customers the most appropriate/cheapest ticket (and training/encouraging their staff not to), vending machines next door to each other selling tickets for the same journey at wildly different prices, and basing decisions on "goodwill" gestures on how "nice" the customer is rather than the justification for making it.

The piece on the appalling way in which customers are not kept informed in times of delays etc was also extremely telling and confirmed what many of us had long suspected.

I'm with BNM - aside from pockets of excellence, customers are regarded as an inconvenience to be tolerated at best, or otherwise treated with something between indifference & contempt.

[PhilWakely]

.........I wonder how many other organisations would get away with using methods which are at best disingenous......

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