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Author Topic: Worcestershire Parkway Station project - ongoing discussion  (Read 38003 times)
grahame
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« Reply #90 on: February 07, 2019, 09:49:07 pm »

It is being built currently and will open next year.

From  the Worceter News

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TRAINS should be departing from Worcestershire Parkway station by December, the county council has revealed.

The finish line for the new multi-million pound railway station on the edge of the city has been the subject of speculation for months and a definitive answer on when it would open had not been given until now.

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grahame
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« Reply #91 on: May 27, 2019, 11:09:42 am »

From elsewhere ... I see pictures of construction well under way.  Also a very interesting discussion that highlights "operational lead planning" and "passenger lead planning".

The operational lead folks are saying the site chosen on the Birmingham to Bristol line is a poor one because it's on a curve and that makes train dispatch hard(er) - the station should have been put somewhere that the track was straight.

The passenger lead folks are saying that the location is right because it allows passengers to travel in all (four) directions from the same point, and allows interchange between the lines.  If there was no-where straight close to where the lines cross, then needs must and it goes on the curve.
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #92 on: May 27, 2019, 11:27:32 am »

Yep, if you can build it on a dead straight and perfectly level bit of track then that’s great, but it certainly shouldn’t have to be like that.
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Robin Summerhill
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« Reply #93 on: May 27, 2019, 12:45:57 pm »

Quote from: grahame
... a very interesting discussion that highlights "operational lead planning" and "passenger lead planning".

The operational lead folks are saying the site chosen on the Birmingham to Bristol line is a poor one because it's on a curve and that makes train dispatch hard(er) - the station should have been put somewhere that the track was straight.

The passenger lead folks are saying that the location is right because it allows passengers to travel in all (four) directions from the same point, and allows interchange between the lines.  If there was no-where straight close to where the lines cross, then needs must and it goes on the curve.

It strikes me that the "operational lead" people are failing to address practical reality, and that is that it is being built at the point where the Oxford to Worcester line crosses over the Midland main line, making it the perfect location to build a new station. Not only does it allow potential passengers to park or come in by bus to use the station to travel in all four directions, it also enables passengers changing lines there to have a far more convenient place to do it than the existing points, which are in essence Cheltenham or Birmingham, with a double change if the intending passenger wants to go towards Evesham or Malvern. It is also rather conveniently approximately 1.5 miles from junction 7 of the M5.

Looking at the OS to find sections of reasonably straight track in the area, there is a section where Norton Halt used to be on the OXF to WOS line, and a bit near Wadborough on the Midland main line (coincidentally the site of another closed station). The trouble is, these "perfect" operational locations happen to be about 2.5 miles apart, which is about as much good as an interchange station as calling Paddington an interchange for London Bridge...

How I wonder would they propose to deal with this? Just not bother and leave the passengers to leg it (because they're only passengers after all - why should we take any notice of them)? Run a shuttle service perhaps with driverless trains (nobody tell ASLEF mind...) on the lines of the Gatwick North to South terminals shuttle? And where would you put the car park? Somewhere half way between the two for reasons of fairness? Search me...

When still working before retirement I used to say that the last thing you should do is let accountants run businesses. You should leave people who understand the business to run it, and tell the accountants to stick to their speciality of understanding the money.

I am starting to think, on the basis of this episode, that the last thing the railways should do is allow operational people anywhere near the customer-focused end of the railway business.

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martyjon
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« Reply #94 on: May 27, 2019, 04:11:43 pm »

... the site chosen on the Birmingham to Bristol line is a poor one because it's on a curve and that makes train dispatch hard(er) ....

What's changed !

A few years ago Devon CC wanted to open(re-open) a station on the Torbay line due to the increased housing developments where the new properties were being acquired by more of the senior people of this land to retire to. Authority decreed that any new station had to be on straight track which also had to be on a level gradient as well.

That location was Kingskerswell and the plan was scuppered by authority.

Its a similar situation with the Portishead line. the LA wanted the line to progress farther into the town which, to keep costs down, would have required a level crossing on Quays Road. Authority said NO.

Plans to extend the Tweedbank line onto Carlisle will involve a level crossing immediately south of the present Tweedbank terminus which is reported to be "of no problem at all". What's the difference, Tweedbank is Scotland, Portishead is England but why ?

Huh

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TonyK
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« Reply #95 on: May 27, 2019, 09:54:56 pm »


Its a similar situation with the Portishead line. the LA wanted the line to progress farther into the town which, to keep costs down, would have required a level crossing on Quays Road. Authority said NO.

Plans to extend the Tweedbank line onto Carlisle will involve a level crossing immediately south of the present Tweedbank terminus which is reported to be "of no problem at all". What's the difference, Tweedbank is Scotland, Portishead is England but why ?

A few years ago, I thought that the crossing at Quays Avenue would not be a problem. Then, when it was refused, I railed against the decision. Then I read the reasons why, and realised that the ORR know better than me when it comes to level crossings on housing estates built after the railway was closed, and within a very short distance of a main road. So I shut up.

Tweedbank is in Scotland, Portishead is England, but why? Possibly a question for King James I (James VI of Scotland) to answer. He didn't know much about railways, to be fair.
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stuving
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« Reply #96 on: May 27, 2019, 11:15:45 pm »


Its a similar situation with the Portishead line. the LA wanted the line to progress farther into the town which, to keep costs down, would have required a level crossing on Quays Road. Authority said NO.

Plans to extend the Tweedbank line onto Carlisle will involve a level crossing immediately south of the present Tweedbank terminus which is reported to be "of no problem at all". What's the difference, Tweedbank is Scotland, Portishead is England but why ?

A few years ago, I thought that the crossing at Quays Avenue would not be a problem. Then, when it was refused, I railed against the decision. Then I read the reasons why, and realised that the ORR know better than me when it comes to level crossings on housing estates built after the railway was closed, and within a very short distance of a main road. So I shut up.

Tweedbank is in Scotland, Portishead is England, but why? Possibly a question for King James I (James VI of Scotland) to answer. He didn't know much about railways, to be fair.

King James the renumbered wasn't that fussed about keeping the two kingdoms distinct - he just wanted the whole lot to be ... well, his, basically. But he never sold the idea widely enough, so that was left for Queen Anne.

While the ORR's performance monitoring of Highways England has no Scottish counterpart, it is safety regulator for railways for the whole of Great Britain (not a synonym for the UK, in this case). The main difference I can see between the two cases is that one has produced a concrete proposal and has been submitted to the ORR for an opinion, while the other is stil at the stage of talks about studies about further stuff.
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CyclingSid
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« Reply #97 on: May 28, 2019, 07:25:20 am »

Single kingdom? Bit controversial at the present time?
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grahame
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« Reply #98 on: July 17, 2019, 05:57:51 am »

Update at GWR - https://www.gwr.com/about-us/modernising-gwr/worcestershire-parkway

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A new station is coming soon…

In 2018 construction began on a new station serving Worcestershire county. The new station is built to serve the two railway lines (North Cotswold Line and Cardiff to Nottingham Line) that it sits across and will provide:

* a 500 space car park (including disabled parking) designed to current standards in terms of lighting, CCTV, ticketing, customer facilities and information points
* a fully accessible modern station building with toilets, ticket desk, and a retail facility
* a single platform on the North Cotswold Line and two platforms on the Cardiff to Nottingham Line that will all be fully accessible
* secure cycle storage, motor cycle parking and electric car charging points
* direct access to local bus services through a bus/rail interchange
* taxi rank and drop off/pick up point
* a new roundabout providing access to the station from the B4084
* a new footbridge for the public right of way over the Cardiff to Nottingham line

Worcestershire Parkway forms part of the wider £50million plus rail investment programme in Worcestershire and is a key part of the longer term Worcestershire Rail Investment Strategy.

This scheme will provide sustainable access to regional and national destinations by rail, including the south-west, north-east, London and the Thames Valley. This will significantly enhance Worcestershire’s connectivity with the UK’s key economies and encourage economic growth and development within the county.

Once open, Great Western Railway services operating between Hereford/Great Malvern/Worcester, and the Thames Valley and London Paddington via stations including Pershore, Evesham, Oxford and Reading will call at the station along with CrossCountry services between Cardiff and Nottingham.

Many times have I travelled from where I live in Melksham to the Midlands, North East, North West and Scotland. And the bit from home to Birmingham has been slow.  I live between the Cross Country train legs to the south west via Taunton and Exeter and to the south via Oxford and Basingstoke.  With the luxury of being able to drive, but with the limitation of being tired driving for too long, Worcestershire Parkway is potentially a very attractive Park and Drive station for me ...
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #99 on: July 17, 2019, 09:22:02 am »

I was confused for a second by the "Cardiff to Nottingham line". I always think of it as the "Bristol to Birmingham (etc)" line. I guess it could be lots of other things too.
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grahame
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« Reply #100 on: July 17, 2019, 10:57:36 am »

I was confused for a second by the "Cardiff to Nottingham line". I always think of it as the "Bristol to Birmingham (etc)" line. I guess it could be lots of other things too.

It's my understanding that the new station will be served by the trains which run from Cardiff to Nottingham and, sadly, trains from Bristol an beyond headed via Birmingham to Manchester, to Sheffield, Leeds, York and the North East and Scotland will not.

From a personal viewpoint, a direct train service from Worcestershire Parkway to Manchester and Motherwell is attractive. A service which requires me to change in Birmingham between two services that may require a significant wait, or where there is a danger of a connection failing, is not so attractive.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #101 on: July 17, 2019, 11:17:27 am »

Indeed.

But perhaps Gloucester has a better demand on those XC connections than Worcester? Then there's the argument that doesn't go away of what type of service is XC meant to provide. Long-distance, fast, limited stop? Or serves as many as possible but is so slow it's quicker to drive?
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johnneyw
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« Reply #102 on: July 17, 2019, 11:39:47 am »

I was confused for a second by the "Cardiff to Nottingham line". I always think of it as the "Bristol to Birmingham (etc)" line. I guess it could be lots of other things too.

It's my understanding that the new station will be served by the trains which run from Cardiff to Nottingham and, sadly, trains from Bristol an beyond headed via Birmingham to Manchester, to Sheffield, Leeds, York and the North East and Scotland will not.


If it's true, it seems crazy. I was hoping it would open up all sorts of better rail possibilities for me from Bristol. To exclude Bristol and other stations from direct connections to there seems to have the effect of reducing the return on the investment in the new station.
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grahame
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« Reply #103 on: July 17, 2019, 11:43:20 am »

Indeed.

But perhaps Gloucester has a better demand on those XC connections than Worcester? Then there's the argument that doesn't go away of what type of service is XC meant to provide. Long-distance, fast, limited stop? Or serves as many as possible but is so slow it's quicker to drive?

I totally agree.  All stations Plymouth to Glasgow Central including Five Ways, Pegswood, Starcross, Crossgates and Carluke would be painful ... but take out stops at Cheltenham Spa / fail to stop at the new station (or Motherwell) and it removes the utility to me.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #104 on: July 17, 2019, 12:13:43 pm »

While adding stops like Worcester & Gloucester (along with all the others that want XC to stop at their local station) would make many others take to the air for longer journeys - many more than do currently - probably more than would be encouraged to use it by adding stops.
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