Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 08:35 29 Mar 2024
- Bus plunges off South Africa bridge, killing 45
- Easter getaway begins with flood alerts in place
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 02/06/24 - Summer Timetable starts
17/08/24 - Bus to Imber
27/09/25 - 200 years of passenger trains

On this day
29th Mar (1913)
Foundation of National Union or Railwaymen (*)

Train RunningCancelled
07:20 Reading to Gatwick Airport
08:46 Bedwyn to Newbury
09:00 Gatwick Airport to Reading
09:54 Bedwyn to Newbury
10:22 Newbury to Bedwyn
11:29 Newbury to Bedwyn
11:57 Bedwyn to Newbury
12:52 Bedwyn to Newbury
Short Run
04:54 Plymouth to London Paddington
05:33 Plymouth to London Paddington
05:55 Plymouth to London Paddington
06:37 Plymouth to London Paddington
07:03 London Paddington to Paignton
07:24 Exmouth to Paignton
08:35 Plymouth to London Paddington
08:41 Westbury to Bristol Temple Meads
09:45 Bristol Temple Meads to Salisbury
10:35 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids
Delayed
05:03 Penzance to London Paddington
06:05 Penzance to London Paddington
07:10 Penzance to London Paddington
08:03 London Paddington to Penzance
08:15 Penzance to London Paddington
09:04 London Paddington to Plymouth
09:37 London Paddington to Paignton
10:04 London Paddington to Penzance
11:03 London Paddington to Plymouth
PollsOpen and recent polls
Closed 2024-03-25 Easter Escape - to where?
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
March 29, 2024, 08:53:30 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[109] Infrastructure problems in Thames Valley causing disruption el...
[72] would you like your own LIVE train station departure board?
[67] West Wiltshire Bus Changes April 2024
[66] Reversing Beeching - bring heritage and freight lines into the...
[59] Return of the BRUTE?
[41] 2024 - Service update and amendment log, Swindon <-> Westbury...
 
News: the Great Western Coffee Shop ... keeping you up to date with travel around the South West
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 3
  Print  
Author Topic: "Find cheapest rail fares yourself, passengers told"  (Read 16030 times)
NickB
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 711


View Profile
« on: August 28, 2015, 22:59:03 »

I don't know if this has been posted elsewhere but there is a damning article about FGW (First Great Western) here. Frankly, if this is true, the arrogance is outstanding - but I expect nothing better.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/11832178/Find-cheapest-rail-fares-yourself-passengers-told.html

Ministers threaten to intervene after First Great Western says it presumes customers have researched the best deals 'by the time they approach the booking office'

Train passengers must find the cheapest fares themselves because companies are under "no obligation" to help, one of Britain's largest rail firms has claimed.

Ministers have threatened to intervene after it emerged that train operators were able to exploit a legal loophole to sell customers expensive tickets.

In an email exchange seen by The Telegraph, First Great Western said its policy for station staff was to presume people had researched the best deals "by the time the passenger is requesting their tickets at the booking office".

It was "unrealistic" to expect customer service staff to ensure tickets were offered at the best price, the email said. As a result, people were legitimately sold "anytime" tickets during off-peak hours and could be paying double the correct fare for their journeys.

A spokesman for the firm, which serves the South West from London Paddington, confirmed that the email accurately reflected its policy. It is understood that the stance does not break the law. First Great Western staff are staging a strike this weekend over concerns about staffing levels on new high speed trains.heapest-rail-fares-yourself-passengers-told.html

Logged
didcotdean
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1424


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2015, 23:27:09 »

The 'spokesman' statement right at the bottom seems rather different from the 'e-mail exchange seen by The Telegraph' referred at the top, without proper indication of who exactly this was between, or what was in it verbatim.

Surprisingly this is the lead page 1 article in at least some printed editions.
Logged
6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2754



View Profile Email
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2015, 00:05:49 »

I suspect this is over splitting tickets to be honest
Logged
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40691



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2015, 04:12:03 »

I suspect this is over splitting tickets to be honest

So do I, in the main.

It may also be about being sold a ^160 peak return when the return journey is off peak and it would be cheaper to buy an ^80 peak single "up" and a ^37.90 off-peak single (or even a ^29.70 superoffpeak single) back. I suppose that's a form of splitting tickets too, though.

It's very easy for the providers (in both government and the rail industry) to shrug their shoulders and say "but that's just the way the system is".  Following on from there, the question comes, what would you do about it if you had the power to do something abut this?

- would you say "sorry - it's always going to be complex and you need to research what you are buying - just as you do at the supermarket"?
- would you wring your hands each time you're criticised and find someone to carry the can for overcharging?
- would you modify the system around the edges to help make it easier to buy the best priced product?
- would you revise the system to the extent that it's a new system which automatically provides at best price?
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2754



View Profile Email
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2015, 09:13:05 »

Its a perfectly acceptable way of splitting tickets as far as ticket office is concerned, for example if someone has a network or senior card we should be activly asking and offering a single up and discounted single back, the splits which can not be suggested are when you are asked for point a to point c and suggest a combination of tickets and end up selling a-b and b-c, all the retailer is obliged to do is tell you if the split is valid for the journey and times, but putting aside the money side of it the fact that the restrictions and routing can change it can get very complicated... ive know someone get in to bother with a salisbury to birmingham ticket which as they had a network card decided to split at banbury but they then decided to return via bristol, something you can do on the threw ticket .... something that gets you a nice little pf when you split
Logged
eightf48544
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4574


View Profile Email
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2015, 09:32:33 »

Brief mention of FGW (First Great Western) statement on the today programme this am.

I wonder who has the courage to cut the Gordian knot that rail fares have become?
Logged
ellendune
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4452


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2015, 09:45:16 »

Brief mention of FGW (First Great Western) statement on the today programme this am.

I wonder who has the courage to cut the Gordian knot that rail fares have become?

Well if the government is stopping the flexing of fares then it will be impossible for companies to sort it out at all for regulated fares without loosing revenue. 

On the general point of the thread:

In my experience is that if you just go and ask for a return to London, FGW staff will ask you when you are going and when you are coming back and will sell you the peak outward and off-peak single for the return journey if that is cheapest.  They will also make sure you know the time restrictions. 

What hey will not offer you, unless you ask, is for a split ticket.  However, once you do ask for a split at a location, they will sell you the cheapest tickets splitting at that location.  So ask for a Swindon to Paddington split at Didcot and they will sell you a Day Return from Didcot to Paddington, a peak single to Didcot and a Super Off Peak single back from Didcot.

Now if only the machines could be so intelligent!
Logged
didcotdean
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1424


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2015, 10:01:11 »

I was renewing my Network Card yesterday at DID» (Didcot Parkway - next trains) which is one of the rare occasions I'm at the counter. Whilst queuing I could hear the gist of a long conversation between the clerk and two passengers working out what was the best arrangement for a complicated journey sequence.

If ticketing was done by ITSO with checking in and out as necessary enroute in theory it could cope with such things as capping a day/period return to match the time of day for each portion etc. What would go would be split ticketing especially of the esoteric kind involving a rover for the middle part of a journey etc.
Logged
stuving
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7156


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2015, 10:11:47 »

Is it just me that gets suspicious when they see this kind of thing?
In that Telegraph article, this is not a direct quote:
Quote
In its emails, First Great Western said customers who wanted the best deal had to identify it and ask specifically.

So that's clear, isn't it? You can't go in and say where you are going and ask what ticket you should buy. But of course we know you can, and it is referred to later in the article.

Then they do quote this answer, but  not the question that was asked.
Quote
"I realise that it would be a more positive experience for our customers if our booking office colleagues do provide any alternatives or extra information at the time of booking ... but they are under no obligation to offer anything other than that which has been asked for," the email explained.

"By the time the passenger is requesting their tickets at the booking office, it is assumed that they have already made the necessary enquiries into the available fare options, and are asking for the fare they want.

"It therefore remains the passenger's responsibility to ensure they're asking for the fare that is best for their particular requirements, or at the least, to instigate the necessary enquiries."

So is that just about someone who asks for a particular ticket? It does read that way.

Turn it round - if you do know what ticket to buy, having done the trip before or done the research, should you still be quizzed about whether some alternative would suit you better? Done thoroughly, it would slow things down by a big factor.

However, one point not raised here is that as more ticketing transactions are done vie machines and other semi-human processes, the proportion of booking office customers in the "needs advice" category is presumably rising. So you could suggest that booking office customers should now be assumed to be na^ve, and always asked if they are sure of their choice, not assumed to be knowledgeable unless they explicitly ask for advice.
Logged
TaplowGreen
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7747



View Profile
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2015, 10:18:33 »

I think if I walked up to a ticket  office and asked for (ie) the cheapest available return from London to Plymouth, I'd expect exactly that - the cheapest fare whether its a return, two singles, Advance, off peak whatever, but I wouldn't expect the guy in the office to calculate every single possible combination of split tickets etc, so I think there's a bit of give and take necessary here?
Logged
JayMac
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 18895



View Profile
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2015, 10:19:14 »

Rock up at Bristol TM(resolve) at 0700 on a weekday and ask for the cheapest return to London returning around 1800 the same day, and you will be sold, without further queries from the clerk, the ^197.00 Anytime Return. That's despite there being a fare that matches the request for ^118 less.
Logged

"Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for the rest of the day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."

- Sir Terry Pratchett.
LiskeardRich
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 3457

richardwarwicker@hotmail.co.uk
View Profile
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2015, 11:07:25 »

I suspect this is over splitting tickets to be honest

Sadly not, I recently witnessed a passenger almost get sold an anytime return for a Saturday day return. I intervened/interrupted the sale and spoke with the passenger. The passenger ended up with the suitable cheapest ticket for his needs and shook my hand afterwards. He had simply asked for a return to x.
Logged

All posts are my own personal believes, opinions and understandings!
ellendune
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4452


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2015, 11:22:30 »

Rock up at Bristol TM(resolve) at 0700 on a weekday and ask for the cheapest return to London returning around 1800 the same day, and you will be sold, without further queries from the clerk, the ^197.00 Anytime Return. That's despite there being a fare that matches the request for ^118 less.

That is sad - I am so glad to be served by the excellent staff at Swindon. 

On one occasion I asked for a Birmingham ticket split at Cheltenham.  They were most careful to check that I understood that although it was cheaper it was restricted to trains via Stroud so I could not do the Bristol parkway alternative.  Though I suppose a more suspicious mind might suggest that they were trying to put me off, I disagree and consider this to be excellent customer service.

Thoughts - why not just sell that ticket as route restricted Stroud?
Logged
Richard Fairhurst
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1204


View Profile Email
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2015, 11:37:05 »

I think if I walked up to a ticket  office and asked for (ie) the cheapest available return from London to Plymouth, I'd expect exactly that - the cheapest fare whether its a return, two singles, Advance, off peak whatever, but I wouldn't expect the guy in the office to calculate every single possible combination of split tickets etc
Indeed, and that's what computers are for.

I have, on the bench behind me, a 2008 machine which is capable of calculating the best cycling route between any two points in North America or Western Europe using the massive OpenStreetMap data set. Once the precalculations are done, it finds even a cross-continent route in milliseconds.

The guy in the office shouldn't be required to work it out. He should just tap "from Paddington, to Plymouth, leaving now, coming back on Wednesday" and the computer should find the best fares for him. If a computer program can't be written to do this, then the fares system is too complex... and yes, I know that it is too complex, but it's not that complex. FGW (First Great Western), and the whole industry, are just choosing not to solve this problem.
Logged
ChrisB
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 12334


View Profile Email
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2015, 12:02:31 »

Rock up at Bristol TM(resolve) at 0700 on a weekday and ask for the cheapest return to London returning around 1800 the same day, and you will be sold, without further queries from the clerk, the ^197.00 Anytime Return. That's despite there being a fare that matches the request for ^118 less.

Which would that be? struggling to get the online sites to produce a ^79 fare
Logged
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: [1] 2 3
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page