Rugby World Cup - underestimated number of fans

[whole diary]

[broadgage]

I'll pose the question again....just how many HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) (approx 500 pax each) do you consider would have offered everyone wanting to travel a seat?.....

Several would help, perhaps four or five.
Not everyone will use the train.

I would have arranged extra services and advertised these as full fare only, book in advance only.
When the approx. 500 tickets per train have been sold, "sorry, sold out"

As I have already said, I feel that the railway could be better at coping with special events, but this costs money and those travelling at such times may have to pay higher fares.
Discounted fares should be a bonus for those travelling at less busy times, and not become an entitlement at busy times.

For example, I have very little sympathy with those who stated that "anytime tickets should not have been sold" IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion), only anytime/full fare tickets should be sold if demand is likely to exceed supply.

[bobm]

For example, I have very little sympathy with those who stated that "anytime tickets should not have been sold" IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion), only anytime/full fare tickets should be sold if demand is likely to exceed supply.

Therein lies another problem - are the TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) allowed to sell Anytime tickets for trains on a Saturday night when restrictions allow off peak/super off peak tickets which are sold by time bands rather than specific trains - ie after 1900 weekdays and all weekend?

[JayMac]

It has already been mentioned that late trains needed to be stabled in Cardiff and there was no further room.  I assume they also missed some maintenance since they were not at their depot. You talk abut adjusting maintenance as if it were ever so simple.  When you are working a fleet to the maximum capacity rescheduling maintenance is not always possible.  So perhaps it is impossible if you want the trains to actually work for the day job next week.

Again you seem to talk about rostering as if it were simply about putting a rota together and telling people to come in. The working hours of crews are regulated and even if you can get them to work that might stop them doing the day job again.  It all depends how much spare crews you have? 

How tolerant would you be if peak hour services on Monday were cancelled because of lack of crew, because they had been working on Saturday Night? Or of trains that were cancelled due to failures brought on by delayed maintenance. 

Your world seems to be very black and white the real world is seldom ever like that and I suspect the extra services that have been run have been a difficult decision involving many compromises.

I stand by my original statement about getting real. 

 

Last minute stabling stabling at Cardiff was an issue. Agreed. But... planning.

Crews were found and rostered for 3 additional HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) and a couple of Turbos for extra curricular activities yesterday. But somehow impossible to do the same later for farebox contributing passengers.

Those HSTs were presumably taken off their usual diagram/maintenance cycle, the Turbos covered additional mileage. But somehow impossible to do the same later for farebox contributing passengers.

Your world seems equally black and white. As an apologist for the can't do attitude displayed by GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) toward farebox contributing passengers. My world questions why additional services couldn't have been restored late night with forward planning. The same forward planning that was presumably done for Newbury and Tenby. FGW^▸ (First Great Western) also managed to do forward planning of additional late night services for the Olympics.

Yesterday it seems that a staff jolly and spot hire were far more important to GWR than the nuts and bolts job of being a mass public transport provider.

[LiskeardRich]

Yes the Rugby World Cup was organised a while ago, but how recently were the times of the matches at each location known? 

The fixture list with venues and kick off times was released in 2012. Some would show for example as England vs qualifier 1 where 8 teams were still playing qualification games when the fixtures were released.

any team that finish top 3 in the previous World Cup pools automatically qualify for next World Cup.

[LiskeardRich]

For example, I have very little sympathy with those who stated that "anytime tickets should not have been sold" IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion), only anytime/full fare tickets should be sold if demand is likely to exceed supply.

Therein lies another problem - are the TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) allowed to sell Anytime tickets for trains on a Saturday night when restrictions allow off peak/super off peak tickets which are sold by time bands rather than specific trains - ie after 1900 weekdays and all weekend?

Run it as a private charter, advance tickets only. Private charter will allow the operator to charge as much as they like though.

[Kernowman]

A lot of comments on here seem to relate to either:
A.) How much the railway should cater to customers^ & event organisers^ requirements?
Or:
B.) How much customers and event organisers should adapt their behaviour to suit the railways?

If, as we are told, ^The railway belongs to the region it serves^ I would suggest that statement A should be the case.

You can blame organisers for late kick off times (I presume they have their reasons), you can also blame Dawlish for having an air show, Glastonbury for having a music festival, seaside resorts for being popular in the summer, blame people for wanting to travel anywhere, blame geographical features such as hills and rivers for being in the way, in fact you can blame anything that doesn^t fit neatly into ^convenient^ travel operating patterns. These things are part of a thing called Life and if you^re running a business or service, (any business or service), if you don^t meet customers^ needs then usually someone else, with more acumen and more adaptability, will take that business from you.
 

[ellendune]

Your world seems equally black and white. As an apologist for the can't do attitude displayed by GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) toward farebox contributing passengers.

On the contrary in my world solutions have positives and negatives and these must be balanced to find the best solution - this is shades of grey not black and white. Since the posts - as so often the case - assumed that solutions were straightforward, I was trying to put few considerations forward that you might not have considered, without repeating the other sides of the arguments already put.  It seems that you do not wish to consider them.  

I think some of the respondents have pointed out other issues that make some of the simple solutions suggested not possible.  

My world questions why additional services couldn't have been restored late night with forward planning. The same forward planning that was presumably done for Newbury and Tenby.

Here there seems on the face of it a case to answer. I hope others who know more will provide more light on this.

FGW^▸ (First Great Western) also managed to do forward planning of additional late night services for the Olympics.

The biggest difference with the Olympics was that it happened during the summer holidays when not only were many regular users on holiday, but others who occasionally used those routes had planned to avoid this.

The Olympics caught the national mood in a way that the RWC has not.  Everyone knew about the Olympics long in advance and events were planned to avoid this period. Staff holidays could also be planned to avoid this period to some extent. I certainly had no meetings in London during that time.  

Unless you are a Rugby fan I suspect like me the RWC took you a bit by surprise.  The RWC is also happening at a time when the railway is hard at work on its day job. Cancelling trains to use them elsewhere is not as easy in September as it is in July.  

A lot of comments on here seem to relate to either:
A.) How much the railway should cater to customers’ & event organisers’ requirements?
Or:
B.) How much customers and event organisers should adapt their behaviour to suit the railways?

If, as we are told, ‘The railway belongs to the region it serves’ I would suggest that statement A should be the case.

Of course A should be the aspiration.  I am just saying that doing that may not always be possible and even if it is it may have an undue impact on another set of regular customers.  So which customers do you please.  I am sure there would justifiably be howls of protest if the extra services came at the expense of the Maidenhead stoppers!

[broadgage]

For example, I have very little sympathy with those who stated that "anytime tickets should not have been sold" IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion), only anytime/full fare tickets should be sold if demand is likely to exceed supply.

Therein lies another problem - are the TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) allowed to sell Anytime tickets for trains on a Saturday night when restrictions allow off peak/super off peak tickets which are sold by time bands rather than specific trains - ie after 1900 weekdays and all weekend?

Run it as a private charter, advance tickets only. Private charter will allow the operator to charge as much as they like though.

That sounds a good idea, and whilst the charter operator COULD charge as much as they want, in the interests of simplicity, charging the full normal fare for the journey might a good idea.

[TaplowGreen]

A lot of comments on here seem to relate to either:
A.) How much the railway should cater to customers^ & event organisers^ requirements?
Or:
B.) How much customers and event organisers should adapt their behaviour to suit the railways?

If, as we are told, ^The railway belongs to the region it serves^ I would suggest that statement A should be the case.

You can blame organisers for late kick off times (I presume they have their reasons), you can also blame Dawlish for having an air show, Glastonbury for having a music festival, seaside resorts for being popular in the summer, blame people for wanting to travel anywhere, blame geographical features such as hills and rivers for being in the way, in fact you can blame anything that doesn^t fit neatly into ^convenient^ travel operating patterns. These things are part of a thing called Life and if you^re running a business or service, (any business or service), if you don^t meet customers^ needs then usually someone else, with more acumen and more adaptability, will take that business from you.
 

Very true.

Also important to remember for those complaining about the organisers having "late" kick offs in RWC that there are often 3 matches taking place on the same day, so they are being staggered for a good reason.....can you imagine the reaction if all three matches kicked off on a Saturday at 2.30pm/finished at 4pm in (for example) Cardiff, Twickenham and Gloucester? Can you imagine the demands on FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s resources before/after the matches if that was the case and the inevitable laments about "why didn't they stagger the kick offs?"

Obviously the RWC was never going to "catch the mood" like the Olympics, nothing else is on that scale but to get a World record crowd of 90,000 people watching Ireland v Romania on a Sunday is pretty outstanding, and I note that Paddington is bedecked with RWC bunting so I guess one or two people may have noticed it.

I concur with others on Chris B's point, run these "special event" trains advance reservations only, not turn up and go, this would appear to have been a solution for last Saturday rather than the will they/won't they debacle which occurred eventually.

Finally............there is never, ever, under any circumstances any excuse for any organisation lying to its customers as was the case with FGW on Twitter and elsewhere about the timings of its last trains on Saturday just gone.

[ChrisB]

Disagree, sorry. If they'd been asvertised without instigating advance sales only, they'd have been seriously oversubscribed and many been stranded with no accomodation. A far worse (the worst?) situation

[PhilWakely]

From further back up the thread, relating to games at Exeter's Sandy Park...

Another cock up by gWr; official brief is that travelling FROM Exeter you must alight at Digby and travelling FROM Exmouth you must alight at Newcourt.

However, the posters are worded

"If travelling in the Exeter direction you must alight at Digby; if travelling in the Exmouth direction you must alight at Newcourt".

The phrase "in the ... direction" means towards, not from.

Newcourt in both directions? Doh!

You appear to have misread it. The poster is referring to the system in place AFTER the game rather than before it.

I had a good long chance to study this poster this morning, having arrived on the Down sleeper and waiting for my taxi (aka my good lady, wife!).  It is very badly worded and I cannot say what actually happened for yesterday's game, but what I think is/was intended is 'Exmouth-bound trains will not stop at Digby and Sowton' and 'Exeter-bound trains will not stop at Newcourt' during the periods immediately before and immediately after games at Sandy Park.

If that was not the intention, then I believe, it should have been.

[phile]

80 Coaches will be available at Cardiff tonight and tomorrow to shuttle to/from Bristol Parkway to supplement the train service.   Organised by RWC

[John R]

I left the stadium at the final whistle (1845) and was on a 7 car unit to Taunton just after 1900.  With an HST^▸ (High Speed Train) leaving for BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) a few minutes later, that would have soaked up a large number of fans quickly. Somewhat disappointingly although 6 of the 7 cars were standing room only, the front one had no more than around 15 people in it, with ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) staff not distributing passengers effectively.

I notice that tonight there are 10 departures to London between 2229 and 0043 (although only 4 of those are advertised on National Rail).  Similarly there are 9 to BRI.  So it looks like a much better attempt has been made to cater for the expected demand, although disappointing that the planning couldn't have been better from the outset.

[phile]

I left the stadium at the final whistle (1845) and was on a 7 car unit to Taunton just after 1900.  With an HST^▸ (High Speed Train) leaving for BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) a few minutes later, that would have soaked up a large number of fans quickly. Somewhat disappointingly although 6 of the 7 cars were standing room only, the front one had no more than around 15 people in it, with ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) staff not distributing passengers effectively.

I notice that tonight there are 10 departures to London between 2229 and 0043 (although only 4 of those are advertised on National Rail).  Similarly there are 9 to BRI.  So it looks like a much better attempt has been made to cater for the expected demand, although disappointing that the planning couldn't have been better from the outset.

All the HSTs that finish for the day at various locations and normally ECS^▸ (Empty Coaching Stock) go to St Philips Marsh are heading ECS to Cardiff tonight.

[ChrisB]

GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) tweeted that they have 22 trains leaving Cardiff after the game tonight, last one to London 0040. Helps to be a weekday night I guess