Rugby World Cup - discussion on the standard of referees

[whole diary]

[Timmer]

Well the good news for GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) is that's the end of matches in Cardiff with the remaining matches in London featuring only Southern Hemisphere sides    Felt for Scotland who came closest out of the home nations to getting through to the semis. Bit unsure of some of the ref's decisions today but I'll leave that to those who have a better technical knowledge of the game than me.

[JayMac]

To be fair to the ref there were one or two decisions against Australia that were debatable. Though not as crucial as the yellow card or the penalty against Scotland in the 78th minute.

This half-Scot was gutted though.

[Timmer]

I'm half Welsh and I felt more gutted for Scotland going out then I did yesterday when Wales lost to SA.

[LiskeardRich]

To be fair to the ref there were one or two decisions against Australia that were debatable. Though not as crucial as the yellow card or the penalty against Scotland in the 78th minute.

This half-Scot was gutted though.

With my ref hat on (I've returned to playing for this season, so I guess I'm a retired ref), the decision was correct for both yellow card and penalty.

Some more questionable calls were made both ways earlier in the game that baffled me.

[TaplowGreen]

To be fair to the ref there were one or two decisions against Australia that were debatable. Though not as crucial as the yellow card or the penalty against Scotland in the 78th minute.

This half-Scot was gutted though.

With my ref hat on (I've returned to playing for this season, so I guess I'm a retired ref), the decision was correct for both yellow card and penalty.

Some more questionable calls were made both ways earlier in the game that baffled me.

........retired refs are the worst in my experience! 

(As an Englishman) I agree re: the yellow card, but he should have gone upstairs re: the penalty, he'd gone to the TMO for virtually everything else all day and I think he was influenced by the Australians leaping up and down screaming "penalty, offside" etc etc.......one things for sure, Barnes/Owens are far and away the best refs in the tournament.

[LiskeardRich]

It wasn't something that protocol allows to go to the TMO. He could only use touch judges for the offence occurred,

[TaplowGreen]

It wasn't something that protocol allows to go to the TMO. He could only use touch judges for the offence occurred,

Fair point......I will not argue with the ref any further! (Sir!) 

[Puffing Billy]

It wasn't something that protocol allows to go to the TMO. He could only use touch judges for the offence occurred,

As I understand it, the referee is allowed to consult the TMO regarding the scoring of a try or an instance of foul play. So presumably the earlier (alleged) deliberate knock-on, which incurred a yellow card, and for which he DID^» (Didcot Parkway - next trains) consult the TMO, was deemed to come under the umbrella of "foul play". But the (alleged) offside incident was not. Can anyone explain?

[jdw.wor]

Having been a ref and a referee assessor (now I think called "advisor") I was mighty surprised by Joubert's immediate decision.
The laws of rugby require, for a free flowing game, an amount of "interpretation" and this is one of those situations.
The Scotsman was offside if his colleague played it but not if the Australian played it. There are further complications regarding who played it first and whether the Australian played it deliberately.
Forgetting all of that I remember being coached as a new referee on this and the advice was " If the ball is being contested by players from both sides and it is not absolutely clear to all nearby , immediately, who played it (and if more than one in what order) you do not give a penalty but a scrum for a knock on". The logic being akin to the difference between obstruction (deemed deliberate and a penalty) and accidental off-side (a balls up and a scrum).
Additionally referees are now told to call out offences so that players are more clear what  they can and cannot do. In this case I do not believe Joubert called or signaled a knock-on as he didn't have time so it is a little perverse to penalise a player when it was so unclear.
I seem to remember that Nigel Owens had exactly the same situation in an international last year and adamantly refused the calls for a penalty stating effectively what is described above, but then Owens is someway the best referee in the world at the moment (and I include Wayne Barnes)

[LiskeardRich]

Nigel Owens is someone I am a fan of. His man management of players is without doubt the best in any sport I have seen.
Sometimes his one liners seem a bit of attention seeking though. I was always taught when I was reffing my performance shouldn't be remembered - have a bad performance and you get remembered, good performance nobody notices you.

[Chris from Nailsea]

We have seen some recent posts here (no, not goal posts! ) on the subject of the referee(s) in the world of rugby, rather than the provision of rail transport for supporters, so I've split them off into a new topic of their own, here.

[ChrisB]

Now no longer transport related, is this on the correct board?

[IndustryInsider]

Having been a ref and a referee assessor (now I think called "advisor") I was mighty surprised by Joubert's immediate decision.
The laws of rugby require, for a free flowing game, an amount of "interpretation" and this is one of those situations.
The Scotsman was offside if his colleague played it but not if the Australian played it. There are further complications regarding who played it first and whether the Australian played it deliberately.
Forgetting all of that I remember being coached as a new referee on this and the advice was " If the ball is being contested by players from both sides and it is not absolutely clear to all nearby , immediately, who played it (and if more than one in what order) you do not give a penalty but a scrum for a knock on". The logic being akin to the difference between obstruction (deemed deliberate and a penalty) and accidental off-side (a balls up and a scrum).
Additionally referees are now told to call out offences so that players are more clear what  they can and cannot do. In this case I do not believe Joubert called or signaled a knock-on as he didn't have time so it is a little perverse to penalise a player when it was so unclear.
I seem to remember that Nigel Owens had exactly the same situation in an international last year and adamantly refused the calls for a penalty stating effectively what is described above, but then Owens is someway the best referee in the world at the moment (and I include Wayne Barnes)

It struck me how the players just accepted probably the most important decision in their rugby lives and got on with the game, rather than eleven players surrounding the referee baying for his blood as would no doubt have happened in a certain other ball game played on a pitch.

[grahame]

Now no longer transport related, is this on the correct board?

Argueable ... but should NOT go to "and also" which is only open to frequent posters, as it would like a general discussion from people who might be reading it.   I am inclined to leave here on this occasion; not right as a topic start place, but as a follow on it seems better not to muddy the waters to move it somewhere just slightly more appropriate such as "across the west".

[jdw.wor]

Be assured there is a strong chance that GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) and its recent World Cup service will appear on Rugby related web sites!!