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Author Topic: Track sharing between London Underground and Network Rail services  (Read 6037 times)
ChrisB
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« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2015, 03:22:33 pm »

I don't think there are either.
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eightf48544
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« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2015, 03:43:59 pm »


Also, what about places where trams and 'full size' trains run on the same track?

As previous posters have said not at the moment although I'm not sure if the Sheffield Huddersfield is still down for tram train.

But it's not a true tram train because it won't run onto the town network in Sheffield and won't share tracks with mainline trains.

Tram trains are found in Germany standard gauge around Karlsruhe and Kassel and meter gauge at Norhausen.

I've travelled on a steam special (Class 50) on one of the Karlsruhe lines (S31, S41) to Baiersbronn the line being electrified at 16 2/3 Kv (Standard mainline voltage)  and also on the Kassel Dual Voltage trams.

The Karlsruhe network is 73 kms town and 430 kms Regio! and has approx 120 dula voltage trams.

Kassel has both dual voltage 18 and 10 Electro Diesel trams. network is 48 kms town 20 interurban and 133 Regio both electric and ED.

Nordhausen has 3 ED trams sharing tracks (11Kms)  with 1897 0-4-4-0 Mallets.

I think the Germans think their safety systems will prevent any collisons between trams and trains and therfore it doesn't matter about having crumple zones.
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BerkshireBugsy
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« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2015, 03:58:24 pm »

Of course the problems of running cars and trains on the same track are well known...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkpCzp0CmjY
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rower40
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« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2015, 04:31:51 pm »

Also, what about places where trams and 'full size' trains run on the same track?
Nexus Tyne & Wear metro trains use NR Infrastructure between Pelaw and Sunderland.  The track from Sunderland to South Hylton is Metro only, but signalled by NR from Tyneside IECC.
(though I agree that Tyne&Wear aren't trams)

There's a tram-train trial proposed for Sheffield, extending the Supertram over NR metals to Rotherham Central.

There's a recently-installed Ground Frame connecting NR to LU at Barking, between platforms 1 and 2. This allows LUL engineering trains to come from their ballast dump at, wait for it, Wellingborough.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2015, 04:33:49 pm »

Manchester Metro do use old NR metals, certainly up to Bury. However the trains run no longer & I'm not sure who now signals/maintains those tracks
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grahame
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« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2015, 04:55:00 pm »

Manchester Metro do use old NR metals, certainly up to Bury. However the trains run no longer & I'm not sure who now signals/maintains those tracks

So do Croydon's trams. And a number of others use old trackbeds - such as Birmingham and Seaton.  On some systems such as Croydon, extreme measures such as a flyover have been added in (Mitcham Junction) to replace a previous pair of rail junctions where the main line from London joined the line from Wimbledon, then branched off it again. And Birbeck to Beckenham Junction is now single track tram and single track heavy rail, I believe.
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Richard Fairhurst
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« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2015, 05:04:09 pm »

Of course the problems of running cars and trains on the same track are well known...
I was hoping that was going to be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6XEVvVRB_4 !
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2015, 06:15:09 pm »

Wow! This forum has a wealth of knowledge! Thanks all.  Smiley
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« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2015, 06:15:18 pm »

The Waterloo and City 750V DC is derived from Network Rail the electric control is NR as well, rest is LU

W & C was part of network South East until BR was privatised. 

The Waterloo and City was transferred to LUL in 1994, the transfer had been agreed well before BR privatisation commenced.
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2015, 06:30:42 pm »

Of course the problems of running cars and trains on the same track are well known...
I was hoping that was going to be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6XEVvVRB_4 !
Red Flag Act repealed 1896. Orange Jacket Act introduced 1994!
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broadgage
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« Reply #25 on: October 20, 2015, 07:09:59 pm »

Of course the problems of running cars and trains on the same track are well known...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkpCzp0CmjY

Is that the proposed pacer replacement ?
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« Reply #26 on: October 20, 2015, 10:20:45 pm »

North of Queens Park the Bakerloo also runs on NR infrastructure.

The District between Wimbledon and East Putney (mentioned above) is unusual in that although it was sold to LU at privatisation, but is still maintained and operated (signalled) by NR staff under a long term contract.   This is probably why mainline stock using the line is not tripcock fitted and does not use the trainstops, historically speaking it is LU that are the visitors, and they do use trainstops.

Paul

Why would mainline trains would use this stretch? Presumably it's to get to Wimbledon depot. Looking at Google maps it would seem that you can only get there from the Wandsworth and Clapham Junction direction. The quicker route from Clapham is the direct route via Earlsfield though. It doesn't make sense to me.
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paul7755
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« Reply #27 on: October 20, 2015, 11:09:36 pm »

The main problem is with Wimbledon depot's location alongside the main fast pair of tracks, so after the peaks down empty trains from Waterloo to the depot would have to cross three tracks to reach it.  Basically impossible to timetable.  By running via Wandsworth they can use the down side of the Windsor lines, and 'take a left' onto the District and then into the depot, causing much less conflicts.

A list of services from realtime trains shows that during most of the day when LU are running the SWT ECS services are nearly all down direction, they operate as though it is a one way loop, IYSWIM...

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/ZPU/2015/10/21/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=SW

It may surprise people to see there are half a dozen SWT passenger services along the District, nearly all in the hours of darkness, for route knowledge purposes for non-Wimbledon drivers.

Paul
« Last Edit: October 20, 2015, 11:20:27 pm by paul7755 » Logged
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« Reply #28 on: October 21, 2015, 07:39:33 am »

I have recently seen a photograph taken on the Manchester Metrolink of a ELR steam engine hauling a ballast train during an overnight possession. It was taken in the last year. There is still a connection with the ELR at Buckley Wells south of Bury and the East Lancashire Railway were contracted to supply a diesel locomotive for scheduled engineering work. At the appointed time the diesel was still undergoing maintenance so the steamer was successfully substituted.
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