Somerset District and Circle line

[whole diary]

[grahame]

About the rest of the route, it strikes me that Frome, for instance, although within what might be called the 'Greater Bristol and Bath commuting zone' is rather an oddity here, due to the roundabout route the rails go, heading north-east to reach destinations that are to the west (Bristol, Bath, Bradford). So I can't see, on that basis (but I don't really know much about this) that being a popular route when it's in competetion with cars and buses.

Ah, but thems in Frome 'aven't got a nyce farst mo-erway into Barf ...

Before I learned a bit into Frome, I would have shared the view that it's a natural bus ride into Bath or Bristol these days, and indeed Radstock's the same but more so - from Radstock (on the north Somerset proposal) you would head south to head north.  But in practise the roads aren't brilliant, they're over the hills and there is quite something of a rail flow already - with major and justified grumbles about gaps in service.  

Frome to Somerton and Taunton, and the other direction to Westbury for connections to Melksham(!), Swindon, Warminster and beyond, on the other hand, seems far more likely. But then that bit is there already.

Don't forget Trowbridge, London, and (1st through train starts in December!) Frome to Salisbury.  But actually catered for such that additional infill trains would be really useful; many connections at Westbury are based on what happens to pass through when rather being planned to connect.   That's historic and getting better (the 15:14 from Swindon to Westbury goes back to 15:12 on 14th December, making for a 66 minute earlier arrival into Portsmouth Harbour).

To some extent, the important thing for Frome is I suspect to get services that fill gaps and to get them onto the 'frequent' network. So that's to Westbury, and/or  to their county town of Taunton - achieved by the Somerset Circle.

Come the electrification recast, written in (at present) for December 2018, so much of the schedule and connectionallity at Westbury gets rewritten that the opportunities are there, and the Somerset Circle isn't only about linking those stations around Langport (and Frome) rather better, but about taking other service developments that may end-to-end nicely and liking part of it and them.

[grahame]

Head of Parry People Movers says light rail could be answer for Somerton and Langport

John Parry, managing director of Parry People Movers, says that light rail solution such as railcars or trams could be a means to reconnect Somerton and Langport. Mr Parry's railcars in Stourbridge have transported three million people in the last six years, and he believes a similar system could work in rural areas.

From the Western Gazette

I heard John Parry speak - and I'll admit to not having picked up the element of his talk headlined. The rest of that article is worth a read, and strikes me as being pretty accurate to his message.

[Bmblbzzz]

That's a good explanation, grahame.

[Red Squirrel]

Worth taking a glance at some of the stuff in the WoE spatial plan, which relates development to transport in Greater Bristol: https://www.jointplanningwofe.org.uk/consult.ti/JSPIO2015/consultationHome

Cut down to a very short precis:
* People who live near Bath tend to work in Bath.
* People who live in North Somerset, Bristol and South Gloucestershire tend to work in Bristol.
* The best places to build new houses are places where there is already (or soon will be) a railway station, e.g. Nailsea, Portishead, Yate.

It puts this Somerset aspiration into context when you spot that Thornbury - which would in many ways seem a good place to develop - is ruled out. You'd think it would be possible to generate a case for the Thornbury branch, but as far as I can see it isn't considered. Here it is, in terms:

"The first step resulted in a number of locations being discounted on the grounds of relatively limited travel choices, including Thornbury, Clevedon and Midsomer Norton and Radstock."

[JayMac]

 

Head of Parry People Movers says light rail could be answer for Somerton and Langport

John Parry, managing director of Parry People Movers, says that light rail solution such as railcars or trams could be a means to reconnect Somerton and Langport. Mr Parry's railcars in Stourbridge have transported three million people in the last six years, and he believes a similar system could work in rural areas.

From the Western Gazette

I heard John Parry speak - and I'll admit to not having picked up the element of his talk headlined. The rest of that article is worth a read, and strikes me as being pretty accurate to his message.

Absolutely nothing in that Western Gazette article that covers the practicalities, or rather, impracticalities of using Parry People Movers between Somerton and Langport. Slower even than the Class 230 ex LU polished turds. The WG has given excellent coverage to the campaign to reopen stations in Somerton and Langport but I'm at a bit of a loss with this article.

A total non-starter.

[Rhydgaled]

The rather ambitious Somerset Circle Line seems an unlikely scheme to succeed in the present circumstances. But if a small miracle were to occur in the shape of Langport and/or Somerton stations reopening, plus the ready availability of refurbished LU units, the best scheme would surely to have a Norton Fitzwarren - Castle Cary shuttle. When the WSR is closed the termination point would be Taunton.

Unless by 'West Somerset Railway is closed' you mean it is undergoing maintenance, I would be inclined to say Norton Fitzwarren when the WSR is running and Minehead when it isn't. Although, I suppose, there is a railway-bus to Minehead (I assume it accepts rail tickets since you can see its timetable on the rail journey planners, I wonder if the railway connditions of carriage (taxi if you miss the last connection because the railway has delays) also apply) so perhaps it isn't as much of a priority as running through national rail services onto other Heritage railways in their off season.

[grahame]

Unless by 'West Somerset Railway is closed' you mean it is undergoing maintenance, I would be inclined to say Norton Fitzwarren when the WSR is running and Minehead when it isn't. ...

We're moving off topic (and I'm not discouraging it / thread can be split) ... but certainly D-Train would be appropriate west of Taunton to Minehead. 

Linking from Castle Cary / Frome, and Minehead?  I see two schemes, neither of which is close and neither of which is on a "probable' list - yet? ... and I don't see great through traffic; as an educated guess it would be "all off, all on" at Taunton with a through service.  Therefore I would think for people / groups to progress the two independently so that if one falls or is delayed, it does not bring down the other, bt they can take advantage of each other if both progress.

The TransWilts case - which lead to the improved service in 2013 - included operational evaluation for two additional stops along the way, but did not depend on them. So there was/is a hook for two new stations, but no requirement for them in order to make the service work.

[rogerpatenall]

This new service would mean the good people of Langport and Somerton could change at Taunton for journeys westward, or east to Bristol and the north. Eastbound they would change at ' Cary for Weymouth, London, Bath etc. By doing this, and not extending any further towards Frome & Westbury, main line HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) would not be inconvenienced. Any thoughts?

HSTs not inconvenienced? except between Norton Fitzwarren and Cary.

I agree with those who think the whole scheme is fanciful dreaming. Nevertheless, for all that , it is fun to speculate. A DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) shuttle terminating from the west at Castle Cary could use a refurbished cattle dock adjacent to platform one, and join the exclusive band of stations with a platform 0. Although the requirement for a facing turnout on the up main may have an effect on non stopping up fasts.

[Bmblbzzz]

Tangentially related question: I hear this line, from Taunton through Frome to Westbury and on to Reading, is known as the Hants & Berks line, although only a little of it is in Berkshire and I don't think it enters Hampshire at all. So why? Surely it would be better known as the Wilts & Somerset?

[Rhydgaled]

Unless by 'West Somerset Railway is closed' you mean it is undergoing maintenance, I would be inclined to say Norton Fitzwarren when the WSR is running and Minehead when it isn't. ...

We're moving off topic (and I'm not discouraging it / thread can be split) ... but certainly D-Train would be appropriate west of Taunton to Minehead.

I was thinking of a through service with sprinters, thus when cut back from Minehead to Norton Fitzwarren to allow steam trains to operate the sprinters would be available for holiday-time strengthing of services elsewhere on the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) franchise.

Anyway, going back to the first post in this topic...

A new proposal from Somerset, being advocated by several attendees at the RailFuture conference yesterday (though not, be it stressed, Railfuture sponsored)

http://somersetdistrictandcircleline.com

Using some of the carriages from the District and Circle Lines in London, which are being taken out of service, and refurbishing these to be powered by biomethane (renewable natural gas made from local organic wastes)

That doesn't quite sound like the Vivarail "D-Train" (class 230). I assumed the class 230 is powered by diesel, not biomethane, and I've not heard the Circle line mentioned as their point of origin before, only the District line.

[ChrisB]

That stock was interchangeable between those two lines, I believe

[grahame]

Tangentially related question: I hear this line, from Taunton through Frome to Westbury and on to Reading, is known as the Hants & Berks line, although only a little of it is in Berkshire and I don't think it enters Hampshire at all. So why? Surely it would be better known as the Wilts & Somerset?

I seem to recall reading somewhere that it's a mixture of aspirations when built, and a redrawing of county boundaries.   The original line ran to from Reading to Hungerford ... extending via Patney and Chirton to Devizes, with the Lavington cutoff added much later ...

[didcotdean]

Berks and Hants railway also included Reading to Basingstoke.

[JayMac]

The latest on the campaign to reopen stations in Langport and Somerton from the Western Gazette print edition of 12th November 2015.

[eightf48544]

That stock was interchangeable between those two lines, I believe

As far as i lnow D stock was confined to the Southern circle from Gloucester Road/High Street Kensington and Aldgate East. C stock worked the District Line  Wimbledon Edgware Road service as well as Circle and Hammersmith and City. D and C stock shared tracks from Wimbleon to Barking via Victoria