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Author Topic: Electrification - so Cascade - so congestion easing - delayed.  (Read 36403 times)
Jason
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« Reply #30 on: November 12, 2015, 16:57:04 »

As a daily user of the motorised sheds class 150's that schlepp between Reading and Basingstoke I find this somewhat disappointing.
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Rhydgaled
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« Reply #31 on: November 12, 2015, 17:28:48 »

There are many who will accept the new timescales and prices (in some cases just because they have no choice), and in my view purely in use of english terms the word "unacceptable" can't be applied to them, because they are accepting / forced to accept.
If you have to force somebody to 'accept' something are they really accepting it? 'Accept' sounds like they are happy, 'force' sounds like they aren't, a grey area?
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Don't DOO (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) it, keep the guard (but it probably wouldn't be a bad idea if the driver unlocked the doors on arrival at calling points).
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« Reply #32 on: November 12, 2015, 20:48:54 »

Other than that GW (Great Western) Electrification is running late, no-one know anything yet.  We're all waiting for Sir Peter Hendy's report and I would think a GWR (Great Western Railway) position paper (agreed with the DfT» (Department for Transport - about) and about the cascade etc) will be ready for its publication.

Everything before that is just speculation.
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ellendune
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« Reply #33 on: November 12, 2015, 22:36:30 »

I think it's fair to say it's "unacceptable" to those who have been promised so much, continue to pay so much, tolerate so much and are now being told that they will have to wait even longer and pay even more.
"Unacceptable" is not a very constructive word.  It certainly should not be used where something is not possible.  It certainly should not be used by anyone whose actions might have precipitated the situation.  So that excludes the politicians who suddenly decided that they wanted the scheme in a timescale that left no time for proper planning. 
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JayMac
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« Reply #34 on: November 12, 2015, 23:28:24 »

Was it acceptable for First Group to advertise 'Building a Greater West' so heavily, including those timescales?
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« Reply #35 on: November 13, 2015, 05:57:42 »

Was it acceptable for First Group to advertise 'Building a Greater West' so heavily, including those timescales?
I can only think they like the rest of us actually believed Network Rail knew what they were doing.
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grahame
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« Reply #36 on: November 13, 2015, 09:04:12 »

Follow up story ...

http://www.itv.com/news/meridian/update/2015-11-11/is-this-the-most-overcrowded-train-in-the-south/

Quote
Rail overcrowding: Major works delayed by up to two years

The promise was an end to the worst overcrowding crisis ever seen our rail network . But tonight we can reveal it will be delayed by up to two years

There's no end in sight! Don't hold your breath! Commuters in the South are being told the overcrowding crisis on our rail network will continue as major works are delayed by up to two years.

ITV Meridian can reveal that a formal announcement will be made within weeks as Network Rail grapples with how to deal with the engineering projects running behind time. That, and a funding crisis.

The problem is caused by a massive increase - in costs and delays to electrify the Great Western line - through the Thames Valley. The price was ^874 million in 2013. It's now ^2.8 billion and will be delayed.

ITV News understands upgrades to allow electric trains to run between Reading and Newbury - and Didcot to Oxford will also be delayed.

Priority will be given to upgrading the line from Paddington to Bristol.

A new ^500 million link from Reading to Heathrow aimed at cutting jams on the M4 may also be put back.

And a ^300 million scheme to link Oxford and Aylesbury with Bedford and Milton Keynes could be delayed by seven years.
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #37 on: November 14, 2015, 07:47:29 »

Was it acceptable for First Group to advertise 'Building a Greater West' so heavily, including those timescales?
I can only think they like the rest of us actually believed Network Rail knew what they were doing.

It had nothing to do with their perception of NR» (Network Rail - home page). The advertising campaign was a disingenuous attempt by FGW (First Great Western) to claim credit for infrastructure works which are largely being financed by the taxpayer. With the subsequent massive overspend and delay it has turned around and bitten them in the arse and they are now seen as part of the problem. Serves them right.

People are not stupid, changing the name, sticking up posters with melodramatic statements/aspirations and painting a few trains green will fool no-one, apart from some of those on the payroll and a few enthusiasts.

For how many more years will we be told "manana, manana"?
« Last Edit: November 14, 2015, 08:01:43 by TaplowGreen » Logged
JayMac
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« Reply #38 on: November 18, 2015, 11:13:39 »

GWR (Great Western Railway) (cf First group) continue to suggest its their ^7.5bn being invested. While they continue to do so, it's only right they continue to take the blame for delays.

Website screengrab:

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TonyK
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« Reply #39 on: November 18, 2015, 17:18:59 »

GWR (Great Western Railway) (cf First group) continue to suggest its their ^7.5bn being invested.

In fairness, it doesn't say they are spending their own money. Like the unelected unaccountable self-appointed oligarchy that is the West of England's Local Enterprise Partnership, if anything, they are signing someone else's cheque.
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #40 on: November 18, 2015, 18:20:12 »

GWR (Great Western Railway) (cf First group) continue to suggest its their ^7.5bn being invested.

In fairness, it doesn't say they are spending their own money. Like the unelected unaccountable self-appointed oligarchy that is the West of England's Local Enterprise Partnership, if anything, they are signing someone else's cheque.
......er....its on their website and the quote is "We're spending" etc etc.....I don't spot too much ambiguity there?
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stuving
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« Reply #41 on: November 18, 2015, 18:21:30 »

GWR (Great Western Railway) (cf First group) continue to suggest its their ^7.5bn being invested.

In fairness, it doesn't say they are spending their own money. Like the unelected unaccountable self-appointed oligarchy that is the West of England's Local Enterprise Partnership, if anything, they are signing someone else's cheque.

But they are not spending most of it in any sense, NR» (Network Rail - home page) is. Even the trains, they will have to pay, but have not "paid for them"  even as in a usual purchase and sale and leaseback arrangement with a ROSCO» (Rolling Stock Owning Company - about).
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grahame
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« Reply #42 on: November 18, 2015, 18:27:53 »

Like the unelected unaccountable self-appointed oligarchy that is the West of England's Local Enterprise Partnership, if anything, they are signing someone else's cheque.

Hmmm ... As I understand it,
1. once every 4 years we elect our councillors.
2. The majority group of them get together and choose a leader.
3. The leader chooses a cabinet
4. The cabinet chooses who represents them on the LEP» (Local Enterprise Partnership - about)
5. The other councils in the LEP area do the same thing
6. The LEP members choose their leader
... so the LEP is accountable back - just that it's through six levels of separation, and answer en bloc with all other issues just once every 4 years.
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #43 on: November 18, 2015, 22:03:06 »

Like the unelected unaccountable self-appointed oligarchy that is the West of England's Local Enterprise Partnership, if anything, they are signing someone else's cheque.

Hmmm ... As I understand it,
1. once every 4 years we elect our councillors.
2. The majority group of them get together and choose a leader.
3. The leader chooses a cabinet
4. The cabinet chooses who represents them on the LEP» (Local Enterprise Partnership - about)
5. The other councils in the LEP area do the same thing
6. The LEP members choose their leader
... so the LEP is accountable back - just that it's through six levels of separation, and answer en bloc with all other issues just once every 4 years.

Blimey! Sounds like the District Soviet!
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TonyK
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« Reply #44 on: November 19, 2015, 17:35:11 »

Like the unelected unaccountable self-appointed oligarchy that is the West of England's Local Enterprise Partnership, if anything, they are signing someone else's cheque.

Hmmm ... As I understand it,
1. once every 4 years we elect our councillors.
2. The majority group of them get together and choose a leader.
3. The leader chooses a cabinet
4. The cabinet chooses who represents them on the LEP» (Local Enterprise Partnership - about)
5. The other councils in the LEP area do the same thing
6. The LEP members choose their leader
... so the LEP is accountable back - just that it's through six levels of separation, and answer en bloc with all other issues just once every 4 years.

Would that life were so simple. Bristol, with a population of 500,000 or so, has one member - the red-trousered Mayor himself George Ferguson. It used to be Mark Bradshaw, with whom George seems to have had a falling out over transport or other matters, and I guess he now sees it as too vital a role to delegate. Representing the road-building councils of North Somerset and South Gloucestershire are Cllrs Nigel Ashton and Matthew Riddle respectively, with Cllr Tim Warren shouting on behalf of Bath and North East Somerset.

The other members are Chairman Colin Skellett OBE, Executive Chairman of Malaysian-owned Wessex water, Robert Sinclair, CEO (Chief Executive Officer) of Canadian-owned Bristol Airport, Kalpna Woolf, former head of the BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page)'s Natural History unit, James Durie of Bristol Chamber of Commerce and Business West, Nick Horne, Chief Executive of Knightstone, the housing body, Esther McMorris, Chief Executive of Nine Feet Tall, a management consultancy outfit, John Pritchard, of thoroughly British GKN, Neil Way, MD of family run electrical contractors Jeff Way, and Professor Steve West, one-time podiatric surgeon and now Vice Chancellor of MetroBust cheerleader UWE.

I can vote for only one of these 13 people. Only four are appointed by democratically elected representative bodies. The other nine were appointed by an unknown process - I don't recall any job adverts or terms of employment being advertised. In the highly unlikely event of the four local authorities agreeing on something, they can still be outvoted 9-4.

Bristol has a single vote in 13, yet contributes the greatest amount to the coffers. In MetroBust, for example, North Somerset and South Glos contribute 10% each to the steadily increasing costs not met by central government funds; Bristol ponies up the other 80%.

Tony Benn, bless him, said on such matters "In the course of my life I have developed five little democratic questions. If one meets a powerful person--Adolf Hitler, Joe Stalin or Bill Gates--ask them five questions: ^What power have you got? Where did you get it from? In whose interests do you exercise it? To whom are you accountable? And how can we get rid of you?^ If you cannot get rid of the people who govern you, you do not live in a democratic system."  The LEP has the power to spend a lot of our money, be it raised from local or central taxation. It was given this power by a previous government. It exercises it in the interests of business first and foremost, with the residents of the area covered included in flawed and biased consultation exercises as an inconvenient chore, needed to tick a box before the money appears. It is accountable to central government for the money it spends. As I didn't have any say in who is appointed to the oligarchy, I assume there is no way of me getting rid of any member other than assassination, which seems a bit extreme, even with MetroBust as a cassus belli.

Bashar al-Assad may view it as a paradigm of democracy in action. I do not.
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