New Devon & Cornwall Franchise?

[whole diary]

[ChrisB]

Already mooted, but apparently (according to The Times) confirmed in the Chancellor's Autumn Statement. Presumably to be split away from the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) franchise on next renewal (2019?)

[plymothian]

More specifically,

The government is launching the competition on the new South Western rail franchise which will incentivise bidders to increase capacity and significantly improve passenger satisfaction and performance standards, as well as providing more smart-ticketing and free Wi-Fi across all trains. Earlier this year, the government also confirmed a ^360 million order for a fleet of new trains on the Great Western franchise, which will provide more seating and better journeys into Devon and Cornwall. The trains will be delivered from 2018. DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) will also work with the Peninsula Rail Task Force and other local stakeholders in the South West to publish a report next year with options for creating a dedicated new franchise for Devon and Cornwall.

Spending review and autumn statement 2015

[paul7575]

But presumably as there is nothing in the SW, (i.e. present SWT^▸ (South West Trains)) franchise consultation, they've abandoned that earlier idea of taking over the Waterloo - Exeter route as well?

Paul

[stuving]

But presumably as there is nothing in the SW, (i.e. present SWT^▸ (South West Trains)) franchise consultation, they've abandoned that earlier idea of taking over the Waterloo - Exeter route as well?

Paul

Given that the current GW^▸ (Great Western) franchise runs to 2019 plus one year option, and the transition that it was intended to cover may last longer than that, it may well line up well enough with the next SWT franchise but one. The current bids are for 7-9 years plus a one year option, so it can end in 2024. presumably any handover to a new franchise can be phased a couple of years later than its start anyway.

[Henry]

 Two franchises running alongside each other seems logical, perhaps they could call
 it 'Wessex Trains'.

[Red Squirrel]

The phrase "for Devon and Cornwall" is a bit ambiguous - it could mean "limited to the area of Devon and Cornwall", but could it not alternatively be interpreted mean "serving all the needs of Devon and Cornwall", which would include connecting them to the capital via the Waterloo - Exeter route?

In the context of the Peninsula Rail Task Force: LSWR^▸ (London South Western Railway), anyone?

[JayMac]

And who provides the cross border services?

[ChrisB]

I'm of the thinking they're referring to local services here....

[stuving]

If DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) have yet to discuss with outsiders and produce a report with options, there is no single "new franchise" to describe. However, no doubt there is a departmental view. I suspect it will ultimately depend on whether the DfT view is that big franchises are best, or whether smaller ones work better and these relatively big ones ought to be subdivided.

[Rhydgaled]

The phrase "for Devon and Cornwall" is a bit ambiguous - it could mean "limited to the area of Devon and Cornwall", but could it not alternatively be interpreted mean "serving all the needs of Devon and Cornwall", which would include connecting them to the capital via the Waterloo - Exeter route?

In which case wouldn't it also need to include the class 802 Paddington to Plymouth/Penzance trains. Rather than GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway)'s 'building a greater west' it would become 'Lesser Western', with INTERCITY routes due to be cut in 2018 and again at the end of the franchise if the Devon & Cornwall franchise happens and takes over London trains.

[ChrisB]

which they won't as it'll abstract a lot of the profit from the GW^▸ (Great Western) franchise. Hence my opinion it means what it says....Devon & Cornwall services.

And I'm sure the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) has been talking to the councils/transport bodies as I reckon it's they that are lobbying for this

[JayMac]

I'm of the thinking they're referring to local services here....

So the Greater Western franchise keeps Cardiff-Paignton, Bristol-Penzance, Cardiff/Bristol-Exeter? Or terminates them all at Taunton?

Does the D&C franchise do likewise - going no further than Tiverton Parkway?

[grahame]

I'm of the thinking they're referring to local services here....

So the Greater Western franchise keeps Cardiff-Paignton, Bristol-Penzance, Cardiff/Bristol-Exeter? Or terminates them all at Taunton?

Some very interesting discussions to be had, me thinks.

Please note that I'm playing Devil's advocate here ...

It's often surprised me when travelling in Europe across certain borders such as Netherlands to Belgium, Netherlands to Germany, France to Germany just how few trains actually cross the border - you have national networks with just the occasional very slim link across (such as Venlo) - but so much of that comes with there being 2 nations.  If you're looking at devolution for Cornwall, does Devon follow and how much does that then move us towards a federal United Kingdom, or even independence for the "Peninsular" - and when you get to that point, demand is probably going to be for trains that turn around at Taunton from the east, at Exeter from the west, with internationalesque services calling at Exeter and Taunton, running not very frequently, and not requiring to be wildly fast due to the economic separation of Peninsularia (that new country) from England.

Taking a less provocative and intermediate approach (which is what it looks like the Peninsula rail group wants) there's a look for them to operate trains in their own area ... logic could be for them to run the "London"s too, with GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) being a territory-based franchised based on services from London via Didcot and Swindon.  There's another logical option that suggests the London to Peninsular services, because they run across between Franchise areas, could from that point be operated by CrossCountry.

[ChrisB]

I'm of the thinking they're referring to local services here....

So the Greater Western franchise keeps Cardiff-Paignton, Bristol-Penzance, Cardiff/Bristol-Exeter? Or terminates them all at Taunton?

I know you're not stupid....what do you think?

GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) retains them - and neither do I consider them *local* services, frankly

[JayMac]

I know you're not stupid....what do you think?

No idea as I've seen no firm proposals of what this Devon & Cornwall franchise will or won't do. It's hardly been confirmed, as suggested in the OP^▸ (Original Poster / topic starter). A report with options is all that has been asked for by government. That's why I'm asking questions. What could those options be. The Peninsular Rail Task Force includes Somerset County Council who may well want a say on services to Taunton, Yeovil, Bridgwater, Crewkerne, Templecombe...

Pray tell, what do you consider local, and why should the Greater Western franchisee (not necessarily GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) remember) keep cross border regional services, or indeed London to peninsular services? Because they are profitable? Doesn't that rather condemn a D&C franchise to heavy subsidy?

and neither do I consider them *local* services, frankly

Neither do I. I brought them up as they are services that provide for local journeys in Devon and Cornwall but start/end outside those counties.