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Author Topic: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion  (Read 112455 times)
Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #180 on: May 23, 2017, 23:30:56 »

I'm rather inclined to refer to 'an' HST (High Speed Train), too.  A 'score draw' on that one, possibly?  Tongue
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William Huskisson MP (Member of Parliament) was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830.  Many more have died in the same way since then.  Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.

"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner."  Discuss.
stuving
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« Reply #181 on: May 23, 2017, 23:54:00 »

The on-line Economist style guide doesn't mention abbreviations after a/an:
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An should be used before a word beginning with a vowel sound (an egg, an umbrella, an MP (Member of Parliament)) or an h if, and only if, the h is silent (an honorary degree). But a European, a university, a U-turn, a hospital, a hotel. Historical is an exception: it is preceded by an, the h remaining silent.

The one I have in book form (Word perfect, Harrap 1987) is more explicit about letter-groups, saying "be guided by pronunciation". It also gives a historical, saying such words with an unaccented first syllable used to have a silent h but now don't.

Taken at face value, I think you can write either 'a' or 'an' before HST (High Speed Train), but when I read it I can change it to suit what I say - either out loud or imaginarily.

That substitution on reading would not be so unusual, I think. The two words 'whilst' and 'amongst' are quite often used in writing, but they are hardly ever spoken. I suspect most people will just substitute 'while' or 'among' when reading out loud. 
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bobm
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« Reply #182 on: May 23, 2017, 23:57:16 »

Of course none of this should take away from the excellent photos in this thread which must have involved some planning and a few gallons of petrol.

(oh no that's going to spark a debate about gallons v litres!)  Grin
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JayMac
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« Reply #183 on: May 24, 2017, 00:11:20 »

Flying Scotsman off at Bishops Lydeard, turned on the Norton Fitzwarren triangle and bed for the night nearby, then LMS (London Midland Scottish - 1923 to 1948) 7F 53808 taking the railtour forward to MineheadAt Crowcombe Heathfield about 20 minutes ago


No, not turned on the triangle, still facing towards Minehead.

Apologies, I got that post a bit garbled. I've edited it now to correct the sequence of events.
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« Reply #184 on: May 24, 2017, 00:13:18 »

Of course none of this should take away from the excellent photos in this thread which must have involved some planning and a few gallons of petrol.

Nah. I did it all on my pushbike.  Wink Tongue Grin
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"Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for the rest of the day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."

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« Reply #185 on: May 24, 2017, 08:06:47 »

Confused. Is Flying Scotsman staying by the seaside for the night, while its rake of carriages is hauled back to Southall by diesel, via BRI» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains)? There remain mysteries on RTT» (Real Time Trains - website) that I have yet to penetrate.


We had a Class 47 take as back from BL to Bristol.

On the way out it appeared to be a late change to do the loco swap at Norton platform rather than BL. That left the many waiting a long time to see Flying Scotsman no doubt being disappointed.
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« Reply #186 on: May 24, 2017, 10:18:04 »

Well you can't beat information from an on the spot reporter.

Watchet station's platform has been changed since the last time a HST (High Speed Train) visited the WSR.

Now we know it isn't "the" Flying Scotsman" but is it "a" HST or "an" HST.   Grin
'H' is not a vowel, and as far as I know you only use 'an' if the following word begins with a vowel. So, a class 180 is a HST and a class 158 is an Express Sprinter (also known as an Alphaline). An issue however is that "an one-five-eight" sounds wrong, "a one-five-eight" sounds better but as far as I know is technically incorrect (since 'o' is a vowel and 'one' starts with the letter 'o').
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Don't DOO (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) it, keep the guard (but it probably wouldn't be a bad idea if the driver unlocked the doors on arrival at calling points).
bobm
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« Reply #187 on: May 24, 2017, 10:33:27 »

a class 180 is a HST (High Speed Train)

180 is "an" Adelante
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chrisr_75
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« Reply #188 on: May 24, 2017, 11:51:55 »

Of course none of this should take away from the excellent photos in this thread which must have involved some planning and a few gallons of petrol.

Nah. I did it all on my pushbike.  Wink Tongue Grin

Fuel consumption in pints then?  Grin
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Rhydgaled
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« Reply #189 on: May 24, 2017, 14:23:17 »

a class 180 is a HST (High Speed Train)

180 is "an" Adelante

Yes, a class 180 is an Adelante. It is also a High Speed Train using the broad definition of the term.
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Don't DOO (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) it, keep the guard (but it probably wouldn't be a bad idea if the driver unlocked the doors on arrival at calling points).
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« Reply #190 on: May 24, 2017, 14:26:24 »

Yes, a class 180 is an Adelante. It is also a High Speed Train using the broad definition of the term.

And occasionally a pain in the arse when they are playing up!
« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 15:46:49 by IndustryInsider » Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
TonyK
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« Reply #191 on: May 24, 2017, 15:03:42 »

Of course none of this should take away from the excellent photos in this thread which must have involved some planning and a few gallons of petrol.

(oh no that's going to spark a debate about gallons v litres!)  Grin

In the case of my flying buddies, the calibration is in US gallons. Confusion is avoided by looking into the tanks, using the Mark 1 human eyeball.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2017, 20:58:28 by Four Track, Now! » Logged

Now, please!
Western Pathfinder
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« Reply #192 on: May 24, 2017, 17:30:54 »

Of course none of this should take away from the excellent photos in this thread which must have involved some planning and a few gallons of petrol.

(oh no that's going to spark a debate about gallons v litres!)  Grin

In the case of my flying buddies, the calibration is in US gallons. Confusion is avoided by looking into the taks, using the Mark 1 human eyeball.


And perhaps a dipstick!.
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stuving
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« Reply #193 on: May 25, 2017, 00:50:48 »

Well you can't beat information from an on the spot reporter.

Watchet station's platform has been changed since the last time a HST (High Speed Train) visited the WSR.

Now we know it isn't "the" Flying Scotsman" but is it "a" HST or "an" HST.   Grin
'H' is not a vowel, and as far as I know you only use 'an' if the following word begins with a vowel. So, a class 180 is a HST and a class 158 is an Express Sprinter (also known as an Alphaline). An issue however is that "an one-five-eight" sounds wrong, "a one-five-eight" sounds better but as far as I know is technically incorrect (since 'o' is a vowel and 'one' starts with the letter 'o').

I find that a surprising opinion from any Welshman, especially one with a forum name that includes a 'y' that's 100% a vowel. Both 'y' and 'w' are primarily vowels in Welsh, and I reckon 'y' in English is more often a vowel* (as in 'early') than a consonant (as in 'yet'). 'W' as a vowel only happens with imports from Welsh, mostly names, but at least one word: 'cwm'.

Basically all this stuff about a letter being either a vowel or a consonant all the time is rubbish. It's all a matter of pronunciation, and in the spoken language it's your own speech that counts. For written English you can say that there is a notional standard pronunciation that determines such things, but it's very hard to pin down what that is. After all, spelling doesn't represent any standard pronunciation, does it?

So, for just the use of 'a' and 'an', it's the sound at the start of what follows that matters. For this case a straight vowel/consonant division is OK (for other things you need to split consonants into stops and continuant). So yes, long initial 'u' (often) and 'o' (rarely) can start with consonantal 'y' and 'w' sounds, and so be preceded with 'a'.

But the example that started this wasn't about words, it was about letter clusters, including abbreviations. (Perhaps that ought to be broadened to "symbol clusters", but that's not needed here.) So it's not the sound of a word spelled with a letter that matters, it's the sound of the name of the letter.

Now these names are rather odd, in that we all know them in spoken form, but have only a semi-official written form and spelling at best. Mostly we borrow a word with the same sound (e.g. 'jay' or 'see'), though a lot of them exist as words derived from the letter ('eff' or 'em'). And eight of the consonants have names that start with a vowel.

As for 'h', it's a special case, as it has two forms: the standard 'aitch' - which does start with a vowel - and the dialect form 'haitch'. This is common in some areas, and in Northern Ireland is a marker of community identity.

But words starting with 'h' contain many special cases as well, as noted in my post above. It's not just a matter of the uneducated "dropping aitches"; there are loan words from French and older English pronunciation patterns. But it could be worse - after all, French has two kinds of 'h', distinguishable by pronunciation, but both silent.

And for one more puzzle, I know of one word in English that has only an abbreviated spelling, and some full spellings imitating the speech of a place or class, but no full-length spelling in standard English.

*Some of these sounds may be called semi-vowels or semi-consonants, but I don't think that's helpful here.
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PhilWakely
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« Reply #194 on: May 25, 2017, 08:58:34 »

Many moons ago, my Primary school teacher had a [not very 2017-PC] little verse that he made us all recite to ensure we pronouced the 'Haich' (a bit like Eliza Doolittle I suppose).................

Harry had a hawk
Put him in a hat box.
Hawk stuck his head out
Harry hit him on the head with a heavy hammer
Hawk hollered horribly

try saying that quickly with a Daarzet or Debn accent  Cheesy Grin
« Last Edit: May 25, 2017, 09:06:03 by PhilWakely » Logged
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