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Author Topic: Bristol: A stupid city?  (Read 11269 times)
Noggin
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« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2016, 04:02:10 PM »

The car park is almost certainly there as a decoy device. Its simply too large for the site, will stuff up traffic, views etc. But the planners will be able to say "we did try".

Arguably a much better idea would be to dig a very large and deep underground car park on the north side of Temple Meads and build a station extension with retail, food, taxi stand, airport buses etc. on top of it. You could probably cut a PPP deal whereby the owner got rental income and so NR/City of Bristol got the amenity for free.

Very large and deep car parks are the sort of thing you see in large French cities, La Rochelle and Annecy spring to mind. In French and Spanish cities, you generally find that most families do have a car (single adults less so), but it sits in the underground car park all week and is used at weekends and holidays for visits to the hypermarket, days out etc.

The thing with public transport is that it is great for certain purposes, generally short-ish journeys of one or two hops with a short walk at either end. But you can't carry much baggage on it, it can be difficult to use if you are infirm or are with multiple children etc.     

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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2016, 04:09:24 PM »


(Of course the 20mph limit is mostly nominal anyway.)
 

Don't you believe it! My next-door neighbour has just been busted for 28mph in a 20 zone!
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2016, 04:37:15 PM »


(Of course the 20mph limit is mostly nominal anyway.)
 

Don't you believe it! My next-door neighbour has just been busted for 28mph in a 20 zone!
Where did this happen and when? And were they perhaps doing something else to attract police attention first, eg running a red light?
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2016, 04:40:08 PM »

@Noggin: Underground car parks in France, and some other countries, where the car sits underground most of the time, tend to be built under (mostly new) blocks of flats. One of the reasons that doesn't happen here is that most of us, even in big cities, don't live in blocks. As for underground public car parks, building anything underground is incredibly expensive; IIRC estimates I've seen are on average 4x the cost of building on the surface.
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2016, 04:41:45 PM »

And what I came here to post, about RPZs:
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The petition calls for [RPZs] to be reversed on the grounds that it has meant job losses, with business closing because of a drop in passing trade.

^Cherished areas of Bristol such as Clifton are suffering with some traders reporting business down by 50 per cent,^ Bowditch said.

^All schemes should be immediately revoked to provide relief, rolled back and at the very least redesigned with proper consultation performed with residents, businesses, and the universities.^
http://www.bristol247.com/channel/news-comment/daily/politics/petition-calling-on-mayor-to-cancel-rpzs
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2016, 04:25:19 PM »

Where did this happen and when? And were they perhaps doing something else to attract police attention first, eg running a red light?

From what she told me, she wasn't doing anything other than speeding. I'm not sure how the myth that the police don't enforce 20mph limits got started.


And what I came here to post, about RPZs:


Funny isn't it: London has them, and so does Birmingham. Leeds, Glasgow and Sheffield have them. Bradford and Liverpool have them, and so does Edinburgh. Manchester also has them, as do Cardiff, Coventry and Peterborough. Leicester has them, and Nottingham, Swansea, Portsmouth, Brighton, Aberdeen, Newcastle, Southampton, Northampton, Swindon, Reading and Norwich do too.

What do these people think is so special about Bristol to make it the only largish city in the realm that doesn't need Residents' Parking Areas?
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ellendune
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« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2016, 05:42:11 PM »

Is it that they dared to put them in Clifton! Or is it that so many commuters got used to using residential streets as an informal free park and ride. 
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2016, 06:51:14 PM »

Where did this happen and when? And were they perhaps doing something else to attract police attention first, eg running a red light?

From what she told me, she wasn't doing anything other than speeding. I'm not sure how the myth that the police don't enforce 20mph limits got started.
I think there was a non-committal statement by the Avon & Somerset boys when the limits were first introduced. There may also have been more explicit pronouncements by other forces. 
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Tim
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« Reply #23 on: February 25, 2016, 09:11:00 PM »


From what she told me, she wasn't doing anything other than speeding. I'm not sure how the myth that the police don't enforce 20mph limits got started.

When we got our 20 zone in Bath last year, the council info leaflet through the door said that it wouldn't be enforced.
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Noggin
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« Reply #24 on: February 25, 2016, 09:54:18 PM »

What do these people think is so special about Bristol to make it the only largish city in the realm that doesn't need Residents' Parking Areas?

Believe it or not, in most of the city there wasn't an issue with parking in residential areas until the council got greedy and hiked city centre parking charges, encouraging people to park and walk.

Also, as they have brought in RPZ's, the number of spaces have been reduced, so creating further problems. 
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Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #25 on: February 25, 2016, 10:16:32 PM »

From the Western Daily Press, in an article dated 9 September 2015:

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Thousands of motorists are caught speeding in Bristol's 20mph zones

More than 2,500 people in Bristol have been fined for breaking the city's 20mph speed limits in the past year.

When the zones were introduced motorists were told they were "not about putting a police officer on every corner and making sure people drive at 19-and-a-half miles per hour".

But in the last 12 months 2,744 of the city's motorists have been given tickets and fines in the areas.

Andrew Coles was caught by a mobile speed camera in Thicket Avenue in Speedwell travelling at 28mph on his motorbike. The 48-year-old with a previously clean driving licence is furious. He believes the public, like him, are unaware tickets are being issued for the 20mph zones.

He said while driving on a road with speed bumps, he saw the mobile camera van, but did not reduce his speed further as he did not believe he was breaking the law.

In 2013 Superintendent Matthew Ayres said enforcement would not be routine, but "intelligence led", targeting areas where there is evidence of excessive speed.

But a spokesman for the force confirmed that it began enforcing the 20mph zones in the city in September 2014.

He said: "We carry out enforcement at sites where we have received requests to do so from residents, the council or members of the public. Anyone caught exceeding 20mph but who has not exceeded 31mph can elect to take an educational course instead of a fixed penalty notice or they could challenge the notice in court. All motorists should be aware that whatever speed limit is in place in a given area, whether it is 20mph or 70mph, it can be enforced."

The change in policy is understood to come after a change in national legislation about how these speed limits should be enforced.

Mr Coles, a factory worker in Yate, believes police should have been more forthcoming about the change in stance. He said after receiving his ticket he could only find information dating from the August 2013 on the force's website stating it "does not enforce 20mph limits that are not engineered to be self-enforcing, utilising such things as speed bumps".

It also states there are no educational courses for those caught speeding in 20mph areas, but that has also changed in the past two years.

"If I thought I was speeding I would have slowed down or just held my hands up," said the Kingswood dad-of-three.

Paul Reddy, head of road traffic defence at law firm Slater and Gordon, which has a Bristol office, said: "Unfortunately, there is no chance the motorist's argument will hold up in court."

And he said: "The limit is 20mph, it is signposted and he exceeded it."

My highlighting. CfN.
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #26 on: February 26, 2016, 09:45:54 AM »

Thank you, CfN.
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2016, 09:51:41 AM »

What do these people think is so special about Bristol to make it the only largish city in the realm that doesn't need Residents' Parking Areas?

Believe it or not, in most of the city there wasn't an issue with parking in residential areas until the council got greedy and hiked city centre parking charges, encouraging people to park and walk.

Also, as they have brought in RPZ's, the number of spaces have been reduced, so creating further problems. 
I live on the edge of two RPZs. The first was in operation before I moved in, the second started up a couple of years later, and when it did, it brought about an immediate reduction in the number of commuters parking there and ^ perhaps more importantly ^ driving around in the mornings looking for a space. It's not just about the car when it's parked, but when it's being driven.

As for the number of spaces, well of course they're not defined as per-vehicle spaces so there isn't a number; but the length of kerb designated for parking has probably increased. Lengths which previously had the white 'keep clear' lines now have parking bays, with double yellows being restricted to the very corners. This is one of my complaints about the implementation of the RPZs; it has legitimised parking in dangerous places, obstructing visibility at junctions.
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #28 on: February 26, 2016, 12:28:33 PM »

Believe it or not, in most of the city there wasn't an issue with parking in residential areas until the council got greedy and hiked city centre parking charges, encouraging people to park and walk.

Even in the sixties, when the Bristol City Centre Policy Report was advocating massive investment in road construction, it was recognised that ultimately the only way to control the number of cars coming into the city was to control parking: if you can't park, you won't drive.

Parking charges don't raise much revenue. Managing parking costs money, and it seems fair that the parkers should pay for this. Even if it were true that that council saw parking as a cash cow, what would they do with the fruits of their 'greed'? Squander it on education and social services? Lower the Council Tax? The bounders!

Congestion is the price living in a booming, energetic city. Lots of people want to live, work and move around, and it is this that puts pressure on parking. If you want to blame the council, then blame them for failing to prevent Bristol becoming an economic success!




Edit note: Quote attribution corrected, in the interests of clarity. CfN.
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #29 on: February 26, 2016, 12:30:19 PM »

You momentarily confused me there by quoting Noggin's words in my name. You might have confused Noggin too!
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