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Author Topic: GWR Class 387 Introduction and impact on Greenford Branch services  (Read 15286 times)
W5tRailfinder
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« on: February 24, 2016, 02:53:50 pm »

Looking on Realtime Trains for 16/05/2016, the first Monday of the new timetable and the introduction of the class 387 on Paddington to Hayes and Harlington services, I have been trying to ascertain the impact on Greenford Branch services.

(hopefully this comes out right and is understandable).

Class 387s will operate the following services, with times at West Ealing:

depart  From    To      arrive
0715      Pad      HH     0733     WE: a0727 d0727
0718      HH         Pad     0741     WE: a0727 d0727
0748      HH         Pad     0810           WE: a0755 d0756

1718      Pad      HH        1739           WE: a1730 d1730
1848      Pad      HH   1909           WE: a1900 d1900
1924      HH         Pad   1944           WE: a1929 d1929
1915    Pad     HH   1936           WE: a1927 d1927
1954      HH        Pad   2014    WE: a1959 d1959

The following Greenford services are impacted and start / terminate at West Ealing:

0713      Grf     WE         0724
0728    WE        Grf   0740
0743      Grf        WE   0754
0828      WE        Grf   0840
The 0812 Paddington to Reading, will make stops at Acton Main Line
(0818) and West Ealing (0824).

1646     Grf      WE       1657
1730     WE       Grf   1742
1816     Grf       WE   1827
1900     WE       Grf   1912
1915     Grf       WE   1926
1930     WE       Grf   1942
1945     Grf       WE   1956
2027     WE       Grf   2039

The 1507 Oxford to Paddington (a1702) will make stops at West Ealing (1648) and Acton Main Line  (1655).
The 1754 Reading to Paddington (a1849), will make additional stops at West Ealing (1835) and Acton Main Line (1841).
The 2013 Paddington to Reading, will make stops at Acton Main Line (2019) and West Ealing (2029).

The connection times at West Ealing are very tight and non-existent, especially for down direction services.

I do not know whether the class 387s will be 4 or 8 car, but RTT» (Real Time Trains - website) indicate some services start in the Bay platform at Hayes and others reverse at Airport Junction.
The bay platform may not be long enough for 8 car at the time the services start.

There are other ECS (Empty Coaching Stock) movements to North Pole IEP (Intercity Express Program / Project.) depot and other movements that are obviously for training purposes.
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stuving
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« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2016, 03:14:24 pm »

I do not know whether the class 387s will be 4 or 8 car, but RTT» (Real Time Trains - website) indicate some services start in the Bay platform at Hayes and others reverse at Airport Junction.
The bay platform may not be long enough for 8 car at the time the services start.

P5 is already 171 m long, so 8x20 m isn't a problem - it needs lengthening for Class 345 (200 m).
Crossing into P5 needs a suitable gap in up services, with margins. In the current timetable (which is only an interim one, I'm sure) that may not exist when they want it, hence the alternative may work better. Of course after Crossrail starts, with millions of Heathrow trains, that option may not exist.

Addition: now I've looked at RTT, these trains that go to Airport Junction are reversing on Relief Lines (Up, apparently). Maybe the number of trains not going to Heathrow will be low enough.

But the plan looks as if it will need a tweak or two - both morning up trains leave from the bay, it says, but the down train reverses and comes back into P4. But what's shown is that it crosses to P4 when it first arrives, and goes to Airport Junction (presumably) solely to reverse - so its confilct with the up service is worse than if it went right across to P5. Maybe I'm reading to much into RTT.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2016, 04:00:32 pm by stuving » Logged
chrisr_75
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« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2016, 04:00:31 pm »

P5 is already 171 m long, so 8x20 m isn't a problem - it needs lengthening for Class 345 (200 m).

It's in the process of being lengthened at the moment - progress appeared to be quite advanced the last time I was there - I assume this current work is to take it to the full 200m length you mention?
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W5tRailfinder
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« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2016, 05:15:49 pm »

I work at Heathrow and use the Connect service. The last time I used it, the down service used the new crossover connection installed at Christmas, between the Down Relief and the current Up Airport. (Airport Tunnel junction still needs re-modelling for the final layout, ie the Up  Airport becomes the Down Airport Relief and connects to the Down Airport). If down trains are using the new crossover, then there are only 2 up tph using the Up Airport Relief, so there would be time to reverse on that line (or even the Dawley Freight loop).

Platform 5 work only allows a single unit at the moment, I do not know when it will be completed.
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stuving
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« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2016, 05:29:30 pm »

Ah, that's probably the key - now (and in May) the layout is neither old nor new but something in between, with varying bits being worked on.
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« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2016, 05:41:26 pm »

The following Greenford services are impacted and start / terminate at West Ealing:

They better hurry up building the platform then.  Cheesy

The bay platform may not be long enough for 8 car at the time the services start.

Think the bay will be fine with with a 160m length train.  I believe the plan was to run all these additional EMU (Electric Multiple Unit) services as 8-car.

If down trains are using the new crossover, then there are only 2 up tph using the Up Airport Relief, so there would be time to reverse on that line (or even the Dawley Freight loop).

I'm not sure Dawley Loop is going to be electrified, so the Up Airport Relief would be favourite I would imagine?
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stuving
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« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2016, 06:10:40 pm »

How far has the H&H rebuild got? I can't find much about its progress. The old bay track ends up under the new platform, which is a lot wider. Has that build-out been done? It would seem the logical thing to do first. I can see that work on the station and P4/5 buildings might prevent its use full length for some time.
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chrisr_75
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« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2016, 06:39:25 pm »

How far has the H&H rebuild got? I can't find much about its progress. The old bay track ends up under the new platform, which is a lot wider. Has that build-out been done? It would seem the logical thing to do first. I can see that work on the station and P4/5 buildings might prevent its use full length for some time.

I've not noticed what's going on with the station buildings, but the track has been realigned and most of the supporting beams for the platform surface appear to be in place, so the new width and length of the platform is apparent. I'll have a look and update the next time I'm passing unless anyone else beats me to it!
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chrisr_75
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« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2016, 11:15:09 pm »

How far has the H&H rebuild got? I can't find much about its progress. The old bay track ends up under the new platform, which is a lot wider. Has that build-out been done? It would seem the logical thing to do first. I can see that work on the station and P4/5 buildings might prevent its use full length for some time.

Track, buffer stops, starting signal and catenary appear fully installed along P5 as is the platform face along what seems to be the full length. Work remaining is to extend the width of the island to increase the length of p4 - the extended part currently occupies roughly a third of the space between p5 and the London bound relief line. Supporting structure is in place so remaining work presumably is only to complete the platform surface and do all the clearance stuff.

Also of note is that the offices and shops formerly next to the station building have now been demolished.
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« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2016, 10:37:11 am »

The connection times at West Ealing are very tight and non-existent, especially for down direction services.

I think the connection situation is a lot better than your post suggests, as I can also find West Ealing calls on a couple of other down trains:

2D55 the 17:15 PAD» (Paddington (London) - next trains)-MAI (Maidenhead station) is stopping at West Ealing at 17:25 to connect in with the 17:30 WEA-GFD.
2R69 the 18:45 PAD-RDG(resolve) stops West Ealing at 18:56 to connect in with the 19:00 WEA-GFD.

Also, 2R79, the 20:13 PAD-RDG calls at West Ealing at 20:25 (not 20:30 as you posted), so does connect with the 20:27 WEA-GFD, and with 2S56, the 19:15 PAD-HAY connecting nicely with the 19:30 WEA-GFD that's all four of the evening Greenford trains from West Ealing with very good connections surely?

Hopefully a connection policy of at least 5 minutes will apply at West Ealing in case of late arrival of the train from London.
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« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2016, 06:19:16 pm »

How I got censured years ago when they took out the Car Park sidings at the Eastern end of Ealing Broadway Station, the place the Greenford car used to stand if it couldn't get to Padd, or Greenford, for any reason.

It got taken out when they electrified down to Heathrow! I was at that meeting and was met with a lot of stony faces from those who thought they knew better when I suggested it was one of the most useful bits of railway in the area. It proved itself time after time.

After they did it and there was trouble on the branch the service was suspended altogether and replaced by buses, which had to be sourced at short notice.

We used a one man with a bus concern from somewhere over that way who seemed to be able to turn up night or day within a few minutes. In fact he used to call in when he was passing to see if he wanted. Paris, Rome and Greenford - but mostly Greenford!
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Surrey 455
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« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2016, 10:03:28 pm »

How I got censured years ago when they took out the Car Park sidings at the Eastern end of Ealing Broadway Station,
Took me a while to work that one out. I remembered there being a siding between the mains and the reliefs but I was scratching my head about a car park. What? Where? Then I re-read this bit
Quote
the place the Greenford car used to stand if it couldn't get to Padd, or Greenford, for any reason.
and it all started to make more sense. As a passenger I would call it a carriage or train but I forgot you railway guys often call a carriage a car. Smiley
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W5tRailfinder
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« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2016, 03:24:28 pm »

II thanks for the correction, I wrote down the Southall time rather than the West Ealing time for 2R79. I missed the other two (2D55 and 2R69), however they do not call at Acton Main Line, so, any passengers from there may have connection problems.

Of course, until the new footbridge is built at West Ealing, passengers from platform 3 will have to use the current footbridge at the east end of the station, then go to the west end to bay platform 5. The planned length of platform 5 is due to be 152 metres and platform 4 is to be extended to 212 metres. All trackwork for the bay platform is complete.

Looking at the plans for Hayes and Harlington station on Hillingdon Council planning website, the bay platform is to have a platform face of 237 metres extending right up to Station Road bridge. If you read the Environmental Statement of the Crossrail Act, this platform was due to be a through platform connecting to the Up Airport Relief. This would have entailed re-building Station Road bridge, but in order to save costs, this was dropped.
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« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2016, 03:34:58 pm »

If you read the Environmental Statement of the Crossrail Act, this platform was due to be a through platform connecting to the Up Airport Relief. This would have entailed re-building Station Road bridge, but in order to save costs, this was dropped.

I wonder if the revised layout would still make that through connection possible should it be deemed necessary in the future?
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stuving
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« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2016, 03:45:31 pm »

If you read the Environmental Statement of the Crossrail Act, this platform was due to be a through platform connecting to the Up Airport Relief. This would have entailed re-building Station Road bridge, but in order to save costs, this was dropped.

I wonder if the revised layout would still make that through connection possible should it be deemed necessary in the future?

Nothing is impossible to build if you're prepared to knock down anything in the way. There's less station in the way now, so I guess it is a bit easier - but the road is still in the way.
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