Bicycles on trains - new policy from May?

[whole diary]

[TaplowGreen]

Until such time when TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) provide sufficient space for people to fit on trains without being crammed in like sardines (which seems a distant dream if not a forlorn fantasy despite the constant "manana manana" from GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) etc), bicycles have to take a distant second place. End of.

[grahame]

I am .. attracted ... to the concept of paying a fare for a cycle on a train - indeed I think it used to be the case, and  possibly still is on some heritage railways.   Yes - all sorts of issues with capacity and 'rights' and reservations, and although people say they would support it, including cyclists, when it came to the crunch I have my doubts.   It strikes me as very similar to ENCTS^▸ (English National Concessionary Travel Scheme) bus pass holders who tell me in one breath they would be willing to pay for a journey and in the next breath say they cannot travel before 09:30 (they can of course - they just have to ay like everyone else! ... with some operators like Faresaver they can even pay just a child's fare before 09:30)

A bit problem, though is identifying "what is a chargeable bicycle?".   Witness potential arguments over whether a cycle is folded (if folders are still free of charge) or whether a piece of luggage (box) contains a folded bicycle or something else (if folders are charged).  And it's the start of a (?) slippery slope on charging for large luggage items, dogs and other pets, etc.

[Bmblbzzz]

And therein would or could lie a split into "full service" and "discount" operators.

[TonyK]

For just a second I was wondering what the relevance of the hospital was!

I am well placed for that, too, and a regular visitor. Unfortunately.

[Spaceship]

I saw these signs go up along the platforms at Bath last month. I think that they are only applying them to the HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s though around the Bristol area It might be because they have had occasional occurrences where the train has been delayed due to the loading and unloading of bikes on those services. Certainly I do recall one service being about 15mins late with the apology 'that this was due to the loading / unloading of bikes'.

The problem with the HST's is that the cycle space is down at the ends through one door and sometimes there can be up to 8 cyclists waiting to load their bikes on which can obviously get frustrating for them and the train guard as turnaround is usually only 2 or 3 mins at intermediate stations.

Myself - I have a foldup which does have the advantage that I can (and do) stand directly over the folded frame when its really busy so the the bike takes up virtually no extra space at all. I made the decision last year that having a full sized bike on a train would be an inconvenience.

[ChrisB]

Restricting to 5 will a) speed up departure & b) disappoint some....

[brompton rail]

According to Hitachi the train layout will include 2 cycle 'cupboards' in a five car set. This document from 2014 illustrates the layout.
http://www.hitachi.com/rev/pdf/2014/r2014_10_105.pdf

The 'cupboard' layout (in illustration below) seems to have been designer by someone who has never tried to store a bicycle vertically. Two bikes, one suspended from the front wheel and the other suspended from the rear wheel. Now, for fit and probably youngish males of average height and above, suspending a bike from the front wheel is fairly straight forward - just lift the handlebars up with rear wheel on floor - however for women, people (of either gender) who are short in stature and for children this will be a challenge. Up-ending your bike to stand on its front wheel while you hook the rear wheel onto a hook almost 2 metres off the floor will prove to be a challenge too far for most people, the front wheel turns sideways and the bike falls on you!

In contrast bike storage on almost all DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit), EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) (except 333s), HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) etc requires the bike to keep both wheels on the floor and fasten against a rail. Only Voyagers in main line use require 'up ending' your bike, and they are hard work!

[Richard Fairhurst]

180s too. Mrs F dreads loading her bike on those (so I usually do it).

[stuving]

The 'cupboard' layout (in illustration below) seems to have been designer by someone who has never tried to store a bicycle vertically. ...

The words next to that picture say:

When designing the new Intercity Express Passenger (IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.)) train, DCA consulted not only user groups but also the Cycle Rail Working Group. The result is a flexible storage space for cycles that includes drop-down shelves for luggage or folding cycle storage, which both the rail industry and stake- holders are happy with.

The outer cycle may be swivelled to the side to allow the inner one to be removed and the central divider folds out of the way to permit the two shelves to be folded down.  The doors are intended to be closed during travel but not locked.

So I guess if you wish to disagree, you need to find out who or what this Cycle Rail Working Group are. Well, they say:

The Cycle Rail Working Group is a cross industry working group that encourages implementation and best practise development of strategic policy in relation to the delivery of cycle-rail integration. The Group is Chaired by Phillip Darnton, Bicycle Association, and the secretariat role is fulfilled by ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here). Group members include:

    Association of Train Operating Companies (ATOC)
    Network Rail
    Transport for London
    Department for Transport
    Passenger Transport Executive Group
    UK^▸ (United Kingdom) Cycling Alliance, represented by Sustrans
    Passenger Focus
    Rail Safety Standards Board
    English Heritage

It does look a bit light on the cyclists' side, doesn't it?

[TonyK]

It does look a bit light on the cyclists' side, doesn't it?

Even given that Sustrans tends to punch above its weight, I agree. Was there no-one else, did Sustrans get there first, or did someone nearly forget to add a token cycle group?

[Spaceship]

Despite the concerns raised regarding the new sets I have noticed that some of the 150s appear to have more cycle space than they used to with the whole front one side from the passenger door to the cab being fold down seats room for at least 4 to 6 bikes or about 20 fold up bikes. A noticeable improvement 

[IndustryInsider]

It does look a bit light on the cyclists' side, doesn't it?

Yes, you'd have thought that Cycling UK^▸ (United Kingdom), formerly the CTC, would be represented.

[plymothian]

Despite the concerns raised regarding the new sets I have noticed that some of the 150s appear to have more cycle space than they used to with the whole front one side from the passenger door to the cab being fold down seats room for at least 4 to 6 bikes or about 20 fold up bikes. A noticeable improvement 

The refurbished 150/2s have the bike space set up like the 150/1s ie a whole side of 1 section at the end of one carriage, with the added advantage that there is also a separate wheelchair space beside the accessible toilet so neither the twain shall meet.  Disadvantage is that there are now fewer seats, and it encourages more people to store their luggage in both of these areas.

[IainH]

One of the things that would make the policy work is ease of reservation.
The GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) website says up to two hours before departure of the train (from origin). Ideally this would be at any time prior to departure - BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) managed to provide reservations for cycles at any point during the journey (and that was with 1980's computing!).

[grahame]

The GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) website says up to two hours before departure of the train (from origin).

That's quite significant on long distance trains then - if I want to take my bicycle on the 13:13 from Reading into Paddington, I need to reserve by 05:41!   But to be fair there are plenty of alternatives with shorter or no reservations needed.