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Author Topic: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific  (Read 27917 times)
bignosemac
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« Reply #75 on: September 19, 2017, 01:32:29 pm »

Nice way of easing the youngsters into commuting - let's give 'em money off their commute!

If said commute (involving a pre-1000 start) costs more than 12 (potentially 15) a day. And to get the full 34% discount the daily fare would have to be 18 (22.60).

Season tickets would still be better value in most cases where commuting requires a pre-1000 journey.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #76 on: September 19, 2017, 01:34:58 pm »

Debate that in suburban London on rail-only commutes.
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WelshBluebird
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« Reply #77 on: September 19, 2017, 01:35:48 pm »

I think this should have no problem generating money. Especially from people who had a 16-25 railcard, used rail a lot, got too old for the railcard and then stopped using rail as much because of the price increase and looked to alternatives like coaches etc. Obviously I can only speak for myself, but I have started to use the coach instead of rail now I no longer have a railcard because the price difference is so much more (38 return Bath to London on the train with the railcard is just about acceptable compared to on average 20 return by coach because of the faster and more comfortable journey, but 57 return is just too much in comparison) a railcard that I could have would certainly entice me back to rail.
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bignosemac
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« Reply #78 on: September 19, 2017, 02:03:57 pm »

Debate that in suburban London on rail-only commutes.

In very few cases, outside Zones 1-6, there may be some 16-25 and 26-30 discounted fares that are cheaper than a 7 Day Season for a Mon-Fri commute. However, 5x Anytime Day Returns are far less flexible than a 7 Day Season, which offers unlimited journeys.

Move up to a Monthly or longer Season Ticket and I'm fairly confident that neither of these Railcards will offer better value for a pre-1000 commute.
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bignosemac
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« Reply #79 on: September 19, 2017, 02:08:06 pm »

I think this should have no problem generating money. Especially from people who had a 16-25 railcard, used rail a lot, got too old for the railcard and then stopped using rail as much because of the price increase and looked to alternatives like coaches etc. Obviously I can only speak for myself, but I have started to use the coach instead of rail now I no longer have a railcard because the price difference is so much more (38 return Bath to London on the train with the railcard is just about acceptable compared to on average 20 return by coach because of the faster and more comfortable journey, but 57 return is just too much in comparison) a railcard that I could have would certainly entice me back to rail.

And that, I suspect, is just the sort of positive revenue implication that the Rail Delivery Group are hoping to achieve. Additional revenue rather than abstraction of existing revenue.
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WSW Frome
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« Reply #80 on: September 20, 2017, 11:42:40 am »

We do love complexity in the UK. In The Netherlands they have had a general railcard for years and available to all. Assuming nothing much has changed recently, the annual cost will now be around EUR50 and offers a 40% discount on 1st or 2nd class fares, with some discount extensions into cross-border services. The only real restriction is not being valid in the morning peak, Mo-Fr.

Having said that the fare structure is much simpler, and largely set up on single tickets - distance based. So this might be an argument for offering a simple discount structure with a loyalty card element.
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Rhydgaled
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« Reply #81 on: September 20, 2017, 04:59:31 pm »

Perhaps it's too radical, but how about a 16 to 59 railcard - or a 16 to 54 if the Senior were to be switched back to 55?

Could even do different prices and discount levels - Sapphire, Ruby and Diamond cards (though I'm not sure which of those is the most precious gemstone so what order they would come in!)
I like the idea of named cards; shame there's already a 'Gold card' (which is something else I beleive) or you could have Bronze, Silver and Gold railcards. For the purpose of this post, I will replace Gold with Diamond for that reason. Rather than increasing the discount rate though, I'd suggest something like this (exact pricing open for debate):

Bronze Railcard
  • Minimum Fare: 12 for travel Mon-Fri BHX
  • Not valid before 09:30 Mon-Fri BHX, except when purchasing rover/ranger tickets that would be valid
  • 34% discount on ALL ticket purchases (including rovers and rangers) for the holder only
  • Pricing:
    • 15 for the disabled
    • 25 for seniors
    • 30 for other concessions (under 26 and students)
    • 55 for everyone else

Silver Railcard
  • Not valid for use in the Network South East (NSE) area around London before 09:30 Mon-Fri BHX, except when purchasing rover/ranger tickets that would be valid
  • 34% discount on ALL ticket purchases (including rovers and rangers) for the holder only
  • Pricing:
    • 15 for the disabled
    • 30 for seniors
    • 65 for everyone else

Diamond Railcard
  • No time restrictions
  • 34% discount on ALL ticket purchases (including rovers and rangers) for the holder, plus a 34% discount for a single adult companion or two child fares (passengers must travel with the holder at all times)
  • Pricing:
    • 20 for the disabled
    • 85 for everyone else

Diamond++ Card
  • No time restrictions
  • Valid only when travelling with a passenger who holds a Diamond railcard
  • 34% discount on ALL ticket purchases (including rovers and rangers) for one adult companion or two child fares
  • Price: 15 per card (maximum of 9 passengers (including the Diamond railcard holder) per diamond railcard)

  • That last one is an attempt to recreate the Family and Friends railcard by making it an add-on to the disabled railcard (which I have effectively renamed as the Diamond railcard) in an effort to simplify the range of railcards available but it might be better to keep the Family and Friends one instead. Alternatively the '++' card could be an add-on to any of the other railcard products, and hence provide a 'two-together'-like product (with the differences being that you can make it three-together by taking kids instead of an adult compainion  and that only the main railcard holder would be named (and probably photocarded to prevent railcard sharing) instead of all travellers).
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Brucey
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« Reply #82 on: October 19, 2017, 06:19:52 pm »

There is an article on MoneySavingExpert about speculation of a 26-30 railcard being trialled by Greater Anglia (see https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/travel/2017/10/new-26-30-railcard-to-be-trialled-from-december).

As someone who is in this age group and doesn't travel by train much now due to the cost, I'm rather supportive, but it will just delay my lack of usage by another few years.

I'm also concerned about the digital only aspect of the card.  Great for short journeys, not ideal for a longer journey where you may runout of charge.
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bignosemac
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« Reply #83 on: October 19, 2017, 08:34:42 pm »

There is an article on MoneySavingExpert about speculation of a 26-30 railcard being trialled by Greater Anglia (see https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/travel/2017/10/new-26-30-railcard-to-be-trialled-from-december).

As someone who is in this age group and doesn't travel by train much now due to the cost, I'm rather supportive, but it will just delay my lack of usage by another few years.

I'm also concerned about the digital only aspect of the card.  Great for short journeys, not ideal for a longer journey where you may runout of charge.

Err... Reply #59 of this thread, et seq. More than just speculation.
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Brucey
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« Reply #84 on: October 19, 2017, 08:49:22 pm »

There is an article on MoneySavingExpert about speculation of a 26-30 railcard being trialled by Greater Anglia (see https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/travel/2017/10/new-26-30-railcard-to-be-trialled-from-december).

As someone who is in this age group and doesn't travel by train much now due to the cost, I'm rather supportive, but it will just delay my lack of usage by another few years.

I'm also concerned about the digital only aspect of the card.  Great for short journeys, not ideal for a longer journey where you may runout of charge.

Err... Reply #59 of this thread, et seq. More than just speculation.
Oops  Lips sealed  Only just saw the news story today.
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bignosemac
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« Reply #85 on: October 21, 2017, 01:42:38 pm »

The BBC have picked up on the story.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41679096

A little late to the party. The briefing documents were on RailUK Forums over a month ago.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #86 on: October 23, 2017, 04:11:19 pm »

Simon Calder had this in the I this weekend

Quote
A new railcard is set to transform British travel for millions of millennials, offering one-third off many rail journeys. On an off-peak return from Manchester to London normally costing 83.90, the saving will be 28.50 - saving almost the cost of the card on one journey.

The 26-30 discount card is expected to become available nationwide early next year, cutting train fares by one-third for people born between 1988 and 1992 who choose to sign up.

A trial in the Greater Anglia area will begin in December this year, with 10,000 railcards on offer to eligible people living in the area. Another 10,000 cards will be issued nationwide in the New Year.

'Millennial railcard' set to launch for 26-30 year olds

News of the initiative emerged last month on a rail forum, discussing a leaked internal document from the Rail Delivery Group.

A spokesman for the group, which represents train operators and Network Rail, told The Independent: We cant comment on this at the moment, but we are always carrying out research and working with the train companies to develop new offers that make leisure travel easier, and better value for money.

However, based on experience and industry contacts, it is possible to draw some conclusions about how the discount scheme will work.

Q What railcards are available at present?

The main widely available national cards are 16-25 for young people; Family & Friends for adults and children travelling in a group (at least one of each); Two Together for two named (and photographed) individuals making the same journey; and Senior for travellers aged 60 or over.

They are supplemented with limited eligibility cards such as the Disabled Person's Railcard, the Gold Card for annual season ticket holders and the HM Forces Railcard, as well as numerous cards for specific areas, from South-East England (Network Card) to the Esk Valley Railcard.

For the average adult aged 26-59, though, there is no straightforward way to secure a discount on rail fares.

Q What is proposed, and what will it offer?

A new 26-30 Railcard, extending most of the benefits of the 16-25 scheme to an older age group.

The basic deal is a saving of 34 per cent on many rail tickets. The main restriction is aimed at excluding the cards use for most commuter journeys in the morning rush hour. While discounts are available on Advance fares without time limits, Anytime and Off Peak tickets are subject to a minimum fare of 12 from Monday to Friday (except public holidays).

For 16-25 Railcards that restriction is lifted in July and August, the idea being to encourage students and young people to travel more by train at a time of year when rush-hour trains are less crowded. But train operators are insisting the minimum fare applies year-round for the 26-30 card, because most of the people signing up for it will be in full-time work.

It is possible the minimum fare will rise to 15 for the 26-30 Railcard.

Q Why are cards being issued only in one region initially, and in such low numbers?

The Greater Anglia train operator is trialling the railcard from December, but to start with only 10,000 will be on offer. Though the card is available only in East Anglia, it will be valid for travel nationwide.

Demand is likely to be strong from travellers in Suffolk and Norfolk, who are currently outside the Network Card area; and from passengers from outside the region who work around the geographical limits to benefit from cheaper fares. Demand for the tranche of 10,000 railcards to be released nationwide early in 2018 will be even more intense.

The train operators are concerned about the risk of an unexpectedly strong uptake among commuters and business travellers. By capping the number of cards sold and restricting the availability, they can limit the possible drop in revenue. In addition, there could be a surge in 26-30 year olds moving to rail for commuting because of the card, adding to overcrowding on peak trains.

Q Will it be an actual card?

Not initially. The first versions will be available on smartphone only via the Railcard app on Apple IOS or Android. Train operators are increasingly offering mobile ticketing, and it makes sense for the card and the ticket to be held in the same smartphone ticket wallet. But train operators are concerned about everything from a higher-than-expected incidence of flat batteries and lost phones to opportunities for fraud.

Once the rail industry assesses whether a virtual railcard is feasible, a decision will be taken on whether to offer physical cards instead or as well. There will also be pressure to make the card as inclusive as possible, by ensuring it can be bought at rail stations

Q What proof will I need of my age?

Your passport or driving licence. If you have neither, you will need to supply a birth certificate and additional evidence.

Q How much will it cost?

Probably 30, the same as most other national railcards. Unlike the other major railcards, though, there will be no three-year option at least initially.

Q Im nearly 30 will I have to wait until I am 60 before I qualify for a railcard?

Not necessarily. It is likely that the scheme is likely to emulate the current option for 25-year-olds: buy a railcard the day before your 26th birthday and you can continue to use it for another 12 months. So someone who turns 31 on 1 July 2018 will be able to buy a card on 30 June and use it until 29 June the following year.

In addition, a 55-plus card is believed to be under discussion, with many of the benefits of the Senior Railcard.

Q Why has the 31 to 59 age range been excluded from cheap tickets?

Many of them already use Family & Friends or Two Together railcards. (The train operators really like these, because they are rarely used for work-related trips.) But the 26-30 card is seen as a trial for a wider National Railcard scheme along the lines of the existing Bahncard scheme in Germany, where discounts are given to holders of any age in a bid to lure people off the autobahn and on to Deutsche Bahn.
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bignosemac
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« Reply #87 on: November 08, 2017, 10:29:30 pm »

Looking for something else I've just noticed that the Railcard app is now available for Android devices. I presume the same is true for the Sheeple err, iPhone users.

Most digital national Railcards are available instantly, provided photos are uploaded and age proof is provided where needed.

The 16-25 for mature students, and the Disabled Persons digital Railcards require additional proof that needs checking. These therefore take a little longer to process.

When purchasing, the app will direct you to a website through your browser. Here is where you provide details and select either 'Post' or 'Digital'.

Head to your nearest app store to find out more.  Wink
« Last Edit: November 08, 2017, 10:35:03 pm by bignosemac » Logged

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« Reply #88 on: November 08, 2017, 10:44:57 pm »

Head to your nearest app store to find out more.  Wink

I'm on my way!!!

(Er, where is it?)
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Now, please!
bignosemac
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« Reply #89 on: November 21, 2017, 01:46:19 am »

The national roll out of a 16-30 Railcard is due to be announced by Chancellor of the Exchequer, Phillip Hammond, in the Budget this week.

Quite what it has to do with the Budget though I'm struggling to understand. The DfT may well be forcing it on the TOCs but I think it highly unlikely that Govt. are offering any funding. Instead it seems to be nothing other than a craven attempt at currying favour with a certain electoral demographic by pretending to be benevolent. The reality being, I suspect, zero pounds from Govt. with costs absorbed by TOCs.

Hopefully Mr Hammond will prove me wrong and is offering funding. But then, why not be really bold and fund a National Railcard?
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42052750
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