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Btline
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« on: February 09, 2008, 20:12:15 » |
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I believe talks of a Worcester or Norton Parkway have being on the boards since the 70s. Seeing that First Great Western would probably operate the station, I think it could be discussed. What do people on this forum think? Should it happen? Where on the Cotswold Line should it be exactly- so trains on the XC▸ route can also call, or so trains From Worcs to Bristol can also call? The latter would basically mean reopening Norton Junction. Some sources say that Shrub Hill would have to close to justify this! That would be a shame, but then again, Shrub Hill is hardly convenient. Any thoughts?  |
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simonw
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« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2008, 22:48:14 » |
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With few exceptions, the rail infrastructure in this country is Victorian, and takes very little account of how the country has developed over the last 100 years.
To successfully integrate rail with other forms of transport, more Parkway stations are needed.
With reference to Worcester, I have always thought it odd the XC▸ trains go from Bristol->Cheltenham->Birmingham and miss out Worcester. Why?
New Parkway stations at Worcestor and Gloucester/Cheltenham could link XC+FGW▸ services with local transport systems. This has got to be beneficial to everyone in the area.
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devon_metro
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« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2008, 09:29:02 » |
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Not brilliant with the track up there but I thought XC▸ avoided Worcester and went via Bromsgrove?
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Andy W
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« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2008, 11:40:31 » |
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The obvious location is at the intersection of the Cotswold line with the XC▸ mainline from Birmingham to the South West. This is within a mile of M5 J6 so is ideal to capture Bromsgrove / Droitwich / Tewkesbury people as well as Worcester. Warwick Parkway has a similar advantage on the Chiltern line.
Advantages would be many, in terms of Worcester as neither station has good car parking, nil at Foregate Street, very limited at Shrub Hill. Worcester access to the XC South West ^ Birmingham & points north would be a great benefit, plus the Cotswold & Hereford lines could have connections to this route.
The Cotswold line could capture customers from Tewkesbury, Bromsgrove, Droitwich (all on the M5), this would be an alternative to Birmingham International / Warwick Parkway for the latter two towns. However it is pointless driving greater demand on the Cotswold line without upgrading it and if not doubling it all the way then at least through to Evesham and maybe Hanborough to Wolvercote. This would get the required bandwidth for at least hourly services in either direction.
However Shrub Hill may still be required as using this location at Norton would be slightly too far from the South West ^ Worcester line junction and trains through to Kidderminster / Stourbridge would not have a Worcester connection (without reversal at Foregate Street).
I only found this forum yesterday & was surprised at the thread regarding doubling the Wolvercote ^ Norton section in its entirety. When these topics are discussed freight is frequently ignored (no mention at all as far as I can tell), nor are the proposed housing developments at both Long Marston & Throckmorton considered. The latter also has a huge waste disposal area which may benefit from a rail connection. I think this should to be regarded more holistically than just a remedy for the current service on this line.
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smokey
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« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2008, 11:47:08 » |
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Not brilliant with the track up there but I thought XC▸ avoided Worcester and went via Bromsgrove?
Arriva's XC services don't stop at Worcester, but for diversion reasons the Train Crew know the routes via Worcester SH and then back to Bromsgrove, or via Kidderminster to Birmingham New St. Stupid that none of XC services call at Worcester SH! |
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Mookiemoo
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« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2008, 12:46:00 » |
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Not brilliant with the track up there but I thought XC▸ avoided Worcester and went via Bromsgrove?
Arriva's XC services don't stop at Worcester, but for diversion reasons the Train Crew know the routes via Worcester SH and then back to Bromsgrove, or via Kidderminster to Birmingham New St. Stupid that none of XC services call at Worcester SH! Which explains my twilight zone morning when the PAD» train was diveerted via cheltenham and I saw a XC service going through shrub |
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Ditched former sig - now I need to think of something amusing - brain hurts -I'll steal from the master himself - Einstein:
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"Gravitation is not responsible for people falling in love"
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Lee
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« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2008, 13:05:27 » |
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I only found this forum yesterday & was surprised at the thread regarding doubling the Wolvercote ^ Norton section in its entirety. When these topics are discussed freight is frequently ignored (no mention at all as far as I can tell), nor are the proposed housing developments at both Long Marston & Throckmorton considered. The latter also has a huge waste disposal area which may benefit from a rail connection. I think this should to be regarded more holistically than just a remedy for the current service on this line.
Welcome to the forum, Andy W. While I accept that freight is sometimes not mentioned in topics where it could be relevant, you can rest assured that we do take freight issues seriously, and have discussed them at length, both on this forum, and our sister forum Save The Train. You will also find several topics on both forums that consider housing developments relevant to rail issues. |
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« Last Edit: February 10, 2008, 13:41:35 by Lee Fletcher »
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Btline
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« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2008, 16:09:29 » |
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I am glad I have started a good discussion (!).
I would be happy for the station to open, but have two problems:
*I can't see XC▸ wanting to stop many trains- the XC route needs speeding up as it is, and making additional call will not help this. It may also make the overcrowding worse (as B'ham commuters forget the 2 car 170 at Shrub Hill, and head for the 4 car voyager/8 car HST▸ at Parkway!). And as for sending XC trains via Shrub Hill!!!!!!!!
*I cannot see the demand for another station. Currently, Shrub Hill is the "park and ride" station for commuters, but the majority of these customers live in the East of Worcester/near to the bypass/near to the M5; cannot get a space anyway, and hate the Inner City traffic, so would forget Shrub Hill altogether.
I definatley believe that the station should be on the intersection. It is a shame, however, that Worc to Bristol trains won't be able to stop!
One benefit is that the station WOULD catalyse the redoubling of the Cotswold line- starting with Norton Junction to Parkway (only a few chains, I know), and then continuing to Evesham soon after!
Hmmmmmm- would Tewksbury Parkway sorry Ashchurch for Tewkesbury see a reduction if all Cardiff-Nottingham trains called here? Ie, would Cross Country rob Peter to give to Paul (I can also see Tiverton losing out- anything to make up the time!)?
Yeah- Worcester parkway looks good on electronic paper, but what would the consequences be?
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Shazz
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« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2008, 16:11:17 » |
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XC▸ call at WSH in the "early" morning...
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Lee
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« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2008, 16:19:48 » |
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Hmmmmmm- would Tewksbury Parkway sorry Ashchurch for Tewkesbury see a reduction if all Cardiff-Nottingham trains called here? Ie, would Cross Country rob Peter to give to Paul (I can also see Tiverton losing out- anything to make up the time!)?
Yeah- Worcester parkway looks good on electronic paper, but what would the consequences be?
Btline poses a good question, and you could argue that the process of reducing Ashchurch XC▸ services has already started (link below.) http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=1342.msg7434#msg7434 |
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« Last Edit: February 10, 2008, 16:24:26 by Lee Fletcher »
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Mookiemoo
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« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2008, 16:25:31 » |
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XC▸ call at WSH in the "early" morning...
Not the reading virgin train! |
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Ditched former sig - now I need to think of something amusing - brain hurts -I'll steal from the master himself - Einstein:
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"Gravitation is not responsible for people falling in love"
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grahame
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« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2008, 16:46:41 » |
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... and you could argue that the process of reducing Ashchurch XC▸ services has already started ...
Just back from Liverpool this afternoon - Manchester to Pymouth train from Stafford to Bristol Parkway. On time at Stafford, at for quarter of an hour at New Street long after everyone had got on and off, save Tewkesbury Abbey in the distance as we passed through Ashchurch non-stop. Long station stop at Cheltenham. And we were in our car and driving away from Parkway before the train actually carried on ... |
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Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
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Btline
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« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2008, 16:54:50 » |
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... and you could argue that the process of reducing Ashchurch XC▸ services has already started ...
Just back from Liverpool this afternoon - Manchester to Pymouth train from Stafford to Bristol Parkway. On time at Stafford, at for quarter of an hour at New Street long after everyone had got on and off, save Tewkesbury Abbey in the distance as we passed through Ashchurch non-stop. Long station stop at Cheltenham. And we were in our car and driving away from Parkway before the train actually carried on ... Hmmmm- there is a heck of a lot of slack in the XC timetable- I suppose that's one good thing! It might not be too bad for journey times. Which trains do you think would call? Would the peak B'ham trains use xxxxu and xxxxs, to stop overcrowding? What about the Cotswold Line? I also read somewhere that Central Train services (ie London Midland) would extend some of there services down (mainly, I suspect, to encourage less people to use Shrub Hill). I suppose XC could make some time savings by building "Gloucestershire Parkway" and axing some Cheltenham and Gloucester stops! No- this Worcester Parkway topic is tricky- no wonder they've got nowhere in the last 30 years! |
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Shazz
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« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2008, 17:01:36 » |
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VT▸ dropped gloucester for exactly the same reasons they dont serve worcester.
I can't see them changing it.
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Lee
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« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2008, 17:11:00 » |
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Personally, I think that there is a case for all Cardiff-Nottingham trains to call at Ashchurch, and I would like to think that the recent petition demonstrated that there is plenty of support for that aim. It has also been said that Worcester Parkway would be ideal to capture the Bromsgrove folks. If that is the case, it is interesting that Network Rail put aside up to ^10m to fund building a relocated station there (link below.) http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hereford/worcs/6525533.stm |
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