Aberthaw Power Station and Decarbonisation

[whole diary]

[broadgage]

Use of hydrogen for domestic and similar heating and cooking is rather pointless under PRESENT circumstances for reasons already given.
No harm though in tests, trials, and experiments in case this changes.

A large potential use for green hydrogen is the manufacture of ammonia fertiliser, this uses a great deal of hydrogen, almost always obtained from natural gas. The present high price of natural gas has resulted in fertiliser shortages and substantial price increases, and also in carbon dioxide shortages as this is a by product of producing hydrogen from natural gas.
Green hydrogen could be used instead, the fertiliser production process is well understood and does not "know" if the hydrogen feedstock is from natural gas or from electrolysis of water.
A possible interim step would be to use green hydrogen produced renewably when available, and natural gas derived hydrogen at other times. The eventual aim being to move to 100% green hydrogen.

The only drawback of green hydrogen for fertiliser manufacture is that no carbon dioxide is produced as a by product. There are other economical sources of carbon dioxide, which is much used in the food and beverage industries

[TonyK]

I think we are going to have to rename our lightest element as Hype-o-gen, given all the lobbying going on. A lot of money is being spent on extolling the virtues of multi-megawatt electrolysers to people who have no idea what one of them is, presumably in the hope that a picture of Rachel Riley will have us all writing to our MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) demanding one on every street corner.  Yes, green hydrogen will be of use to industry as a replacement for the much cheaper (but still not cheap any more) current supplies obtained by steam reforming of methane, but it will come at a cost. The very idea of using precious hydrogen to heat homes is ridiculous, unless you own a gas pipe network. Then, it becomes a last gasp attempt to find a purpose for your £20 billion pipeline asset, which without gas running through it will be worth slightly below zero pounds. Hence why the biggest proponent of the abandoned Redcar experiment was Northern Gas Networks, and the only one of the many scientific reports on the subject to find that hydrogen would be good in household boilers was sponsored by Cadent.  The most efficient way to use hydrogen in home heating would be to power a heat pump via a fuel cell, which would be nonsensical given that you could just use the electricity expended on making the hydrogen instead, and save all the losses.

Hydrogen as a home energy source is an expensive way of turning a lot of energy into a lot less energy. That becomes more farcical when the electricity used to make the hydrogen comes from burning gas, whether it is done directly, or indirectly by using wind energy that could have supplied the grid. We are nowhere near the point where all of our daily electricity is made by clean means, and that is without the extra that will be needed to power 30 million vehicles, 60% of the railway, and the replacement of 25 million gas boilers. Our very rough average of 30 GW^▸ (Great Western) demand is going to be closer to 100 GW when (if) we ever get close to net zero, and there won't be much by way of off-peak electricity when the nights are given over to heating water cylinders and charging vehicles.

Ammonia production uses lots and lots of hydrogen, and the CO2 currently made as a by-product has a substantial market, although almost all of it ends up in the atmosphere in the end. You may recall that the increased price of gas almost did for our domestic NH₃/CO₂ industry, with government having to throw money at it, so what the change to green hydrogen will do is anyone's guess. Most of the hydrogen made in this country doesn't leave the compound where it is made, but goes straight into the next step of the manufacturing process. This avoids the need for transport over any distance, and thus the need for extreme cooling or extreme pressurisation. Gas pipe networks are going to need a lot of work to carry hydrogen safely in such volumes as will be needed to match methane. If I lived in an area where the experiment was to take place, I would opt for a heat pump. I have looked into it already, but our boiler is only 5 years old, and I don't like the idea of scrapping something that good.

"The government therefore still plans to take a decision in 2026 on whether, and if so how, hydrogen will contribute to heating decarbonisation." That won't be this current government. The other likely contenders seem to have a feel for hydrogen too, although not so passionately so. One day, we are going to have to ask people who did the same physics and chemistry O-levels as me, but took the education further than I did, to explain to our politicians in words of one or two syllables exactly what those pesky laws of physics say about all this. For me, it's a dead duck, but still quacking loudly.

[broadgage]

I very largely agree with the above, regarding hydrogen, with one exception. We do not need the carcon dioxide that is a by product of producing hydrogen from natural gas.
Until recently most UK^▸ (United Kingdom) carbon dioxide was produced by Distillers PLC, a company noted for the production of distilled spirits, this only ceased when carbon dioxide from natural gas was found to be a bit cheaper.

We could easily revert to carbon dioxide from the distiling industry (both potable spirits and industrial alcohol)

Carbon dioxide from natural gas adds to global warming.
Carbon dioxide from the distiling inudustry is green because it is only returning to the atmosphere that carbon captured by growth of the barley or other plant matter that is fermented.
If the barley was not used thus it would rot, be eaten by wildlife, or destroyed by fire and the carbon still returned to the atmosphere.

[Oxonhutch]

Tony makes a good point on the thermodynamic truth of green and blue hydrogen. I most cases, it is best just to use the electricity at the point of need or store that unused electric energy in a more energy efficient manner.

The beauty of gold or natural hydrogen is that the Earth has already expended its energy on creating it from its own nuclear energy reserves; crystallising the mineral olivine out of the Earth's mantle to make oceanic crust, or its equivalent. The Earth adds its own water (plenty of that about) to the mix and hydrogen is generated. Man's quest is to find where it has become trapped using his 100 years worth of oil and gas exploration techniques. That's a least what is keeping me, and several of my long-time colleagues, busy at the moment.

[ellendune]

Proponents of a hydrogen economy point to the amount of renewable generation capacity that is not used at peak supply, but the biggest cause of this is the capacity of the grid to transmit it. At times of high winds, much of our wind generator capacity has to be turned off and replaced with gas generation simply because the grid elements connecting the wind power do not have the capacity!

Burning hydrogen to heat houses is not new - coal gas was IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly) around 50% hydrogen.  

As has been pointed out the process of converting electricity to hydrogen is very inefficient.  Anyone selling surplus electricity will almost certainly get a better price selling it to someone with batteries or pumped storage facilities!

Hydrogen as a fuel will IMO^▸ (in my opinion) therefore have a very niche role as it will be expensive and requires a lot of storage space compared to methane.  

[broadgage]

As regards pumped storage, a new and very large pumped storage power station has recently been approved at Coire Glas

https://www.coireglas.com/

[Mark A]

The promotional video, it's a bit snarky for my eye to be drawn to the caption 'A golden opportunity for a secret hidden power station buried under centuries' old rock', and yet it was. I'll try to be better. That aside, lovely pumped storage. Adventurous too in that Loch Lochy's part of the Caledonian Canal - the following touches on the implications.

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/60250f77169f1f1381bb3020/t/60a527ce775afc3733b87d73/1621436367353/vol_2_-_ch_6_-_water_management-1463264.pdf

It's curious to reflect that it's not so many years since this project would have involved building a rail connection to assist with the construction and also delivery of generating equipment. This aspect, back then, might even have given the line to Fort Augustus a day in the sun. Goodness knows such days were few. It would be interesting to find out if any components will be brought to site by canal.

The delivery of a transformer for one particular pumped storage installation in North Wales was recorded by British Transport Films.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4nqWE26yqk

On a presumably smaller scale and closer to coffeeshopland, Nailsworth was in receipt of something very heavy via rail - in connection with electricity distribution and perhaps whatever was delivered via the long vanished branch line is still in front line service.

Mark

[TonyK]

This evening is one of wind's better times, at almost 17 GW^▸ (Great Western) output, or about half of the installed capacity. Gas is down to about 2.5 GW and we're not actually burning coal. I strongly suspect that jubilant press releases will be popping up in editors' inboxes, and the hydrogen lobby will not be slow to join in - even though the figures could be reversed by the time the papers hit the street.

Spare wind power is capricious and the value of building infrastructure of any kind to use it is likely to be marginal at best. For the moment, the real slack times are overnight, so the price of electricity falls. When it gets down to 7.5p per kWh, my car starts to charge its battery, along with a small proportion of the nation's car fleet. As that proportion grows, more of that "spare" electricity will be used, making me wonder if whoever wants to build a new pumped storage has worked that into the equation. It isn't just private vehicles - First Bus in Bristol has a planning application in for expansion of the Hengrove depot, to include chargers for 130 buses. I make that about 19.5 MW when they are all plugged in. Imagine if 100 other depots in different areas of the country do the same, something almost certain to happen within a few years. Suddenly, two-thirds of a new nuclear power station is spoken for, and Coire Glas will be a very expensive muddy puddle unless it pays the same 7.5p. I suspect it will go ahead, even if it needs a lot of public money, because pumped storage is the closest thing we have to an instant injection of power.

Half of town gas was hydrogen, true, with carbon monoxide in more or less equal measure. It was thus very leaky and poisonous in more or less equal measure, and had less than half the calorific value of natural gas. Its manufacture was as a by-product of turning the coal we no longer mine into the coke for the steel we no longer produce at any scale, and gas works were easily found should you have cause to visit - "Just follow your nose, Sir". It is often cited in support of hydrogen as a boiler fuel, but we are well rid of it.

Without a doubt, the country needs rewiring, and there's another mammoth task. The Hinkley Point C Connection project, which has seen those cute T-pylons spring up across parts of Somerset, has taken 14 so far years from the first planning meeting, cost £900 million, and covers 57 km of cable. Actual building started in 2021, and has more than another year to go. We are going to need an awful lot more than that.

Gold hydrogen is indeed starting to excite people in the industry. Time will tell if it is achievable, or a chimera, but even then, the problems of storage and transport will prevail. My own thought is that industries such as ammonia and steel will spring up around any usable deposits, rather than having international transport of the gas.

Carbon dioxide from the distilling industries just goes to show what a damn fine drink gin really is - the answer to, and cause of, many of life's problems.

[stuving]

I suspect it will go ahead, even if it needs a lot of public money, because pumped storage is the closest thing we have to an instant injection of power.

In the announcement of their own investment of £100M, SSE^‡(resolve) said:

Once complete, Coire Glas would be capable of delivering 30GWh of long duration storage. The scheme would take excess energy from the grid and use it to pump water 500 meters up a hill from Loch Lochy to a vast upper reservoir equivalent to nearly 11,000 Olympic-sized swimming pools where it would be stored before being released to power the grid when wind output is low and customer demand is high.

At the flick of a switch, Coire Glas would begin generating enough renewable energy to be able to power three million homes in just under five minutes. Critically, the Coire Glas project could provide this level of firm, flexible power for up to 24 hours non-stop.

SSE’s £100m commitment to further developing Coire Glas comes as the leading low carbon energy infrastructure company awaits the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) Government’s decision on how it intends to financially support the deployment of long-duration electricity storage, as set out in last year’s British Energy Security Strategy.

This could include the introduction by the UK Government of a ‘revenue stabilisation mechanism’ in the form of an adapted Cap and Floor scheme to support investment in long-duration storage. This would also be alongside broader consideration of how the electricity market, including the Capacity Mechanism and the Flexibility Markets, value the contribution of low carbon flexible assets such as pumped storage.

Despite getting planning consent in 2010, the decision to go ahead is expected next year at the earliest. Good job there's no hurry, eh?

[TonyK]

Despite getting planning consent in 2010, the decision to go ahead is expected next year at the earliest. Good job there's no hurry, eh?

That period covers the tenure of three first ministers of Scotland, all of whom seem to the sassenach in the street to have been trying to establish the country as a deep-fried banana republic, financed by the onshore wind industry. The middle of the three was the first to complain about the waste of excess electricity because of the inadequate connection to the south, and the last to try to do anything about it. Options including paying to upgrade the link or stopping building more were ignored in favour of complaining about the Westminster government not sending more money. For some reason, industry seemed reluctant to establish industries north of the border to use this bonanza, and I suspect this may be influencing thinking on Coire Glas.

SSE^‡(resolve) seems to be waiting for the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) government to stump up cash so that it can build something that will enable it to sell its own electricity to itself before waiting until the price is high, then selling it to the rest of us. But a few days ago, National Grid and Scottish Power announced contracts worth £1.8 billion to build a 2GW 525 kV HVDC link between Torness and County Durham, something that could see a significant reduction in excess power north of the border. At the same time, the growth of electric vehicles could introduce battery storage to households across the UK. Some models, including the Nissan Leaf but not, alas, mine, allow for bi-directional flow along the charging cable. Using the car battery to power the house when at home, then charging it cheaply after bedtime, could mean many of us evening out our own supply, with no need for another pumped storage facility. Maybe there was no hurry after all?

[broadgage]

I still see a need for more new large pumped storage schemes, modern society needs power 24/7 and how to supply this without pumped storage is a challenge.
A lot can be done by shifting industrial loads and battery charging to times of plentiful supply, but there will still be a substantial demand for power on demand when there is very little wind. Pumped storage is very useful for this.

Pumped storage plant is also useful for black starting the grid after any emergency. Controls, instruments, emergency lighting and the power operated valves that admit water to the turbines all need electricity but this small demand can be supplied from batteries or from a small diesel engine.

At present most black start plant is gas turbines that start from batteries or air bottles, but with the rundown in fossil fuel plant this will not continue.
Interconnectors do not help with a black start, the inverters will not feed into a dead system.
Solar and wind power is generally connected via inverters that require an energised grid system, these also wont feed energy into a dead system.

[TonyK]

This evening is one of wind's better times, at almost 17 GW^▸ (Great Western) output, or about half of the installed capacity. Gas is down to about 2.5 GW and we're not actually burning coal. I strongly suspect that jubilant press releases will be popping up in editors' inboxes, and the hydrogen lobby will not be slow to join in - even though the figures could be reversed by the time the papers hit the street.

As I predicted, so the Guardian produced on Thursday 21 December.



I'm not sure what the Guardian means by "generates 21.8 GW in half an hour", but it has never been my first option for science. There's a proverb that says something like "Good news arrives on horseback, bad news on foot", or if there isn't, there should be. You didn't see this sort of coverage at the beginning of the month, when wind power didn't get above 3 GW for three days.

I still see a need for more new large pumped storage schemes, modern society needs power 24/7 and how to supply this without pumped storage is a challenge.
A lot can be done by shifting industrial loads and battery charging to times of plentiful supply, but there will still be a substantial demand for power on demand when there is very little wind. Pumped storage is very useful for this.

How much more pumped storage is a moot point. Dinorwig will knock out 1.7 GW for about 6 hours. Coire Glas will add a bit more than that, but we get stalled high pressure systems with precious little wind every year that can last for days on end , including over a week last March, and nearly a fortnight in December 2022. Dinorwig, the existing other smaller pumped hydro plants and the putative Coire Gals would make little difference, representing as they do a mere fraction of the installed capacity of our wind fleet. Their biggest value is in reacting to short-term load variations to maintain frequency, like the million kettles after Eastenders. They do not regenerate during the day, so if used early remain empty. That role will continue when the country finally achieves an even load around the clock, but they are a form of back-up that still needs back-up. A true switch to net zero will entail doubling our electricity demand at the most conservative estimate, and we will need that load day and night, with more in winter. Pumped storage will help manage that, not provide backup at any meaningful level.

[ellendune]

I still see a need for more new large pumped storage schemes, modern society needs power 24/7 and how to supply this without pumped storage is a challenge.
A lot can be done by shifting industrial loads and battery charging to times of plentiful supply, but there will still be a substantial demand for power on demand when there is very little wind. Pumped storage is very useful for this.

There is a limit to what pumped storage can do.  Batteries may be more useful in the longer term. 

However the best option is diversity. 
- Diversity in terms of different power sources - wind, solar tidal...
- Diversity geographically a large grid can balance generation geographically. Wind may be in the north of the GB^▸ (Great Britain) on a particular day but not in the south. Solar may be good in one part of Europe but not in another on a particular day.  Even tidal has peaks and troughs in production, but a quick look at a set of tide tables will tell you that the troughs and peaks will be at different times around the GB. A grid can balance this out, the bigger the better. There are plans for an interconnector from N Africa to the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) to take advantage of solar power in the Sahara.