Fill in 3rd rail?

[whole diary]

[Electric train]

With the best will in the world i cannot see the North Downs line being electrified that quickly, even if a shovel ready contract was awarded today it would take something like 5 years to do the physical works.

There is a lot of planning and design to do, traction power grid supply points both new and enhanced if its third rail if its 25kV then grid supply points and a couple of complex AD/DC^▸ (Direct Current) interfaces to design

[onthecushions]

I hope that neither Surrey CC, the sponsoring LEP^» (Local Enterprise Partnership - about)'s or the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) are put off by the "unfit for purpose" ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about) and Network Rail, both of whose days must surely be numbered, after the GWEP^▸ (Great Western Electrification Program) disaster.

There are existing grid supply points nearby on the Southern at Reading, Aldershot and Leatherhead, all supplying the 33kV ac trackside cable that drives the dc system. I am told (by Merseyrail) that there is serviceable substation gear in stock from previous SR^‡(resolve) upgrades. Unfortunately MR^▸ (Midland Railway)'s supply is, like LUL^▸ (London Underground Ltd), only 11kV. SR sleepers are generally drilled and plugged ready for insulator pots. The only ac/dc interface is at Reading which will already exist for the 3 SWT^▸ (South West Trains) platforms when CrossRail arrives.

The 12 + 18 odd miles of 3rd rail needed for this important link is almost within a maintenance team's capability, given the resources. I imagine that the London Mayor and LUL would move things along much better than NR^» (Network Rail - home page)'s senior management.

Mind the gap,

OTC

[Electric train]

I hope that neither Surrey CC, the sponsoring LEP^» (Local Enterprise Partnership - about)'s or the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) are put off by the "unfit for purpose" ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about) and Network Rail, both of whose days must surely be numbered, after the GWEP^▸ (Great Western Electrification Program) disaster.

There are existing grid supply points nearby on the Southern at Reading, Aldershot and Leatherhead, all supplying the 33kV ac trackside cable that drives the dc system. I am told (by Merseyrail) that there is serviceable substation gear in stock from previous SR^‡(resolve) upgrades. Unfortunately MR^▸ (Midland Railway)'s supply is, like LUL^▸ (London Underground Ltd), only 11kV. SR sleepers are generally drilled and plugged ready for insulator pots. The only ac/dc interface is at Reading which will already exist for the 3 SWT^▸ (South West Trains) platforms when CrossRail arrives.

The 12 + 18 odd miles of 3rd rail needed for this important link is almost within a maintenance team's capability, given the resources. I imagine that the London Mayor and LUL would move things along much better than NR^» (Network Rail - home page)'s senior management.

Mind the gap,

OTC

I would like to know where the "in stock" equipment is ................. and I work in one of the SR routes in asset management

Reading 33kV grid feed has limited capacity, it only feeds as far as Ascot if it has to feed beyond that then service restrictions are put in place, this is pretty much the case for most of the Grid sites limited capacity from the DNO^▸ (Distribution Network Operator) unless new 132/33kV transformers and switchgear is installed.

Traction substations work out at about £2m a time and one is needed every 4 to 6 miles and then there are TP huts in between

The interface at Reading is by separation and buffer zones that allow diesel traction to move been the AC electrified railway and the DC^▸ (Direct Current) electrified railway there will not be a AC / DC traction dual electrified interface installed by Crossrail or GEWP to allow eclectic traction to operate between the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) and SW Lines , passive prevision has been made. 

The electrification of the North Downs line is do able, but its not going to be quick it will take Surry CC many years to secure the funding.  Neither the ORR or NR are going to disappear the Government have bigger problems to deal with over the next 5 years

[onthecushions]

I would like to know where the "in stock" equipment is ................. and I work in one of the SR^‡(resolve) routes in asset management

I have dug out my correspondence for 2005 (that long ago!)

I quote from a letter I sent to a Northern MP^▸ (Member of Parliament),

"I recently met a senior Network Rail executive at an Institution meeting in London who told me that as a result of the Southern Region power supply upgrade, he had 19 surplus, serviceable substations plus ancillaries..."

The MP consequently wrote to Merseyrail and I have the top copy of the reply. I quote,

" Thank you for passing the information on the recycling of the Southern Region power supply equipment from your correspondent..

You will be pleased to hear that Merseytravel is actively looking to see how we can utilise this equipment and have just contracted with part of the project team responsible for delivery of the Southern region to help us in this regard."

This was of course in the "bad" time for electrification, pre-Adonis and MT was trying for trams.

So it wasn't a daft idea.

OTC
 

[broadgage]

As others have posted, any significant expansion of conductor rail routes is not going to happen.
The health and safety industry are very strongly opposed to a system that uses a lethal voltage exposed at ankle height.
VERY MINOR infills and additions might be tolerated, such as adding an extra electrified platform or extending a siding, but significant mileages no way.
LUL^▸ (London Underground Ltd) extensions in tunnels are tolerated since the tunnel is in effect a "no go area" when the rail is live.

In this case, I suspect that battery powered multiple units will be used eventually. The present diesel mileage is well within battery capabilities.

[Electric train]

I would like to know where the "in stock" equipment is ................. and I work in one of the SR^‡(resolve) routes in asset management

I have dug out my correspondence for 2005 (that long ago!)

I quote from a letter I sent to a Northern MP^▸ (Member of Parliament),

"I recently met a senior Network Rail executive at an Institution meeting in London who told me that as a result of the Southern Region power supply upgrade, he had 19 surplus, serviceable substations plus ancillaries..."

The MP consequently wrote to Merseyrail and I have the top copy of the reply. I quote,

" Thank you for passing the information on the recycling of the Southern Region power supply equipment from your correspondent..

You will be pleased to hear that Merseytravel is actively looking to see how we can utilise this equipment and have just contracted with part of the project team responsible for delivery of the Southern region to help us in this regard."

This was of course in the "bad" time for electrification, pre-Adonis and MT was trying for trams.

So it wasn't a daft idea.

OTC

That was equipment purchased as part of the Southern Power Supply Upgrade to allow the Networks to operated fully so all the slam door stock could be scrapped, the surplus equipment was all used by 2010/11 and indeed since then a whole lot more new traction power supply equipment has bee purchased.  Currently there is the Kent Power Supply Enhancement (PSE) to allow for 12 car Networker, Class 700 and 12 car 395 operation, there has also been the BML PSE in 2011 which is also getting more PSE in CP6^▸ (Control Period 6 - The five year period between 2019 and 2024).

There may be one or two spare HV, DC^▸ (Direct Current), Rectifiers and transformers being stored, they have an allocated use.

[onthecushions]

Thanks for the information. I'm glad to see that all this high value gear is being well used.

MT/MR^▸ (Midland Railway) only needed one SS to reach Burscough, its last main population centre to the North.

Regards,

OTC

[adc82140]

It's being reported on another forum that Porterbrook are looking in to the practicalities of converting some Class 319s to bi-modes (or tri-modes even)- a possible solution for the North Downs? 4 car units, Diesel on the non 3rd rail bits. Possibly an interim solution for the Thames Valley branches (not Bourne End though) as well?

[grahame]

It's being reported on another forum that Porterbrook are looking in to the practicalities of converting some Class 319s to bi-modes (or tri-modes even)- a possible solution for the North Downs? 4 car units, Diesel on the non 3rd rail bits. Possibly an interim solution for the Thames Valley branches (not Bourne End though) as well?

That would be a development of this story on this forum then 

[adc82140]

That'll be the one.    All these forums get confusing- nearly posted it in the radio section of DigitalSpy... 

[onthecushions]

A 379 conversion would be more this century, either with a battery or diesel.

Some may be available when new GE stock arrives.

OTC

[Noggin]

A 379 conversion would be more this century, either with a battery or diesel.

Some may be available when new GE stock arrives.

OTC

I would imagine that part of the attraction is that 319s are relatively low tech by modern standards, pop an engine underneath (either direct-drive or effectively a generator) and the job's a good-un.

With a more modern unit, there will be software to re-write, which may well end up costing more money and taking longer than figuring out how to do the engine and where the fuel tank goes.

[onthecushions]

With a more modern unit, there will be software to re-write, which may well end up costing more money and taking longer than figuring out how to do the engine and where the fuel tank goes.

I think that the 319's are computer controlled via a thyristor not camshaft/PCM controller.

As it might have a 286 PC running IBM DOS 3.3 it is probably quite reliable!

Imagine a crowded 12 car set running under Windows 8, stuck somewhere critical, with the guard and driver walking down the train asking "anyone know how to....?"

OTC

[TonyK]

As it might have a 286 PC running IBM DOS 3.3 it is probably quite reliable!

My old BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) Model B never failed, apart from the odd user-inspired syntax error.

[Western Pathfinder]

As it might have a 286 PC running IBM DOS 3.3 it is probably quite reliable!

My old BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) Model B never failed, apart from the odd user-inspired syntax error.

I still have mine (in a box in the loft) last time I used it was a couple of years ago to show my Godson aged fourteen at the time what we had to put up with back in the day.