MetroBus

[whole diary]

[grahame]

Wearing another hat I attend my LA's transport forum. At a past meeting the forum was informed that the current double decker bus profile had changed and the roof of these vehicles was now curved which meant the overall height of the bus was increased. This coupled with the fact that a low bridge had been re-signed ...

Does really highlight the need for joined up thinking, doesn't it?   This sort of story isn't unique to the Bristol area ... and for each such story, how many more are there which don't quite happen because someone catches an issue at the last moment.  Classic example nearer to home last night ... avoiding a new bus shelter being erected at a stop where there may be a (positive) re-routing in the Spring.  Right twits our councillors would have looked if the stop had been where the bus used to stop, rather than across the road where it's probably stopping in the future ... but then good on them to ask around, check, and await the new details!

[simonw]

It is getting harder to believe the incompetence of this whole project.

Whilst most of the expenditure is justified for new roads (South Bristol Link, Stoke Gifford Bypass, bus lanes etc) the total lack of integration with rail is STUPID.

Not ordering Pay points until two years after the due date is STUPID.

Not commissioning operators, or even creating a council company to run these routes is STUPID. I find it incredulous that the Emerson Green route may start in 5 weeks, and no operator has been chosen.

Building bridges the correct height for old bus designs, but not current or future designs is unbelievable.

Finally, don't get me started on the current Aztech West controversy ...

The sooner all transport is taken away from local councils and put in the hands of a professional local transport body, say the Avon Transport Executive to run all Rail, Bus and Roads in the area, the better.

[rogerw]

Not forgetting that the operator will need to give the requisite 56 days notice to the Traffic Commissioner.
I have also heard it suggested that concessionary passes will not be valid on MetroBus.  There are very strict rules applying to the acceptance of these and if the services are registered as local services I don't see how this can be the case.  Is there anything published on this that anyone is aware of?

[chuffed]

The metrobus website on travelwest makes it crystal clear that concessionary passes will be accepted on all metrobus routes.

[chuffed]

Why is it, that the GMPTE^▸ (Greater Manchester Passenger Transport Executive. Now TfGM^▸ (Transport for Greater Manchester. )) can, by and large, get everything so right.. think Metrolink, remodelling of Victoria, Piccadiily stations, free Metro shuttle buses serving the central area for everyone.......and yet Bristol almost exclusively gets everything so wrong,,,,think Metrobus, expansion plans for Temple Meads, unreliable  and expensive 8/9 buses serving the central area.
Answers on a postcard please ( no stamp required) to Marvin Rees, Mayor of Bristol, City hall. ( or has it been defergusonised ?)
At the risk of opening a further can of worms, why don't we rename the Counts Louse as we Bristolians called it for yonks, The Colston Hall, at the same time as the original changes its name to something bland and uninspiring...Marvin Rees Hall anyone?

[ellendune]

Why is it, that the GMPTE^▸ (Greater Manchester Passenger Transport Executive. Now TfGM^▸ (Transport for Greater Manchester. )) can, by and large, get everything so right.. think Metrolink, remodelling of Victoria, Piccadiily stations, free Metro shuttle buses serving the central area for everyone.......and yet Bristol almost exclusively gets everything so wrong,,,,think Metrobus, expansion plans for Temple Meads, unreliable  and expensive 8/9 buses serving the central area.
Answers on a postcard please ( no stamp required) to Marvin Rees, Mayor of Bristol, City hall. ( or has it been defergusonised ?)
At the risk of opening a further can of worms, why don't we rename the Counts Louse as we Bristolians called it for yonks, The Colston Hall, at the same time as the original changes its name to something bland and uninspiring...Marvin Rees Hall anyone?

There were some influential councillors after the abolition of Greater Manchester Council, who managed to persuade the 10 District councils that they should work together on transport issues for their mutual benefit.  Once they got their first success (Metrolink) the argument did not need to be made again.

[TonyK]

There were some influential councillors after the abolition of Greater Manchester Council, who managed to persuade the 10 District councils that they should work together on transport issues for their mutual benefit.  Once they got their first success (Metrolink) the argument did not need to be made again.

Similar could happen with MetroBust. A few more years, and they may realise that they are never going to achieve anything worthwhile in transport as a team.

[simonw]

Fundamentally, Manchester area benefited from GMT, Greater Manchester Transport.

This organisation, like MPTE, West Midlands Transport, TfL^» (Transport for London - about) controls buses, rails and road and is non political. They work with local councils for government grants, and use this along with ticket revenue and loans to build better, integrated transport systems.

So, why can't we in Greater Bristol, have Avon Transport Executive?

[martyjon]

Ironic that the first route to be up and running, Emersons Green to the City, was not even in the original plan but WHEN it is up and running the route will probably put paid to the current Firsts route X48 which covers practically the same areas of Emersons and Lyde Greens and to which I had a pleasant surprise when I traveled on the route of the numbers using it especially from the Lyde Green area which is still a massive house building site. I suppose this could be a ploy by the promoters to replace a currently well used route by a MetroBus covering 90% of the well used route and trumpet MetroBus as an instant hit with the public, we'll see.

[ellendune]

Fundamentally, Manchester area benefited from GMT, Greater Manchester Transport.

This organisation, like MPTE, West Midlands Transport, TfL^» (Transport for London - about) controls buses, rails and road and is non political. They work with local councils for government grants, and use this along with ticket revenue and loans to build better, integrated transport systems.

So, why can't we in Greater Bristol, have Avon Transport Executive?

But GMT was dismantled and the buses sold off to the usual national companies, resulting in the usual deregulated chaos. TfGM^▸ (Transport for Greater Manchester. ) still does not run buses so far as I am aware.

The legislation only allowed PTE^▸ (Passenger Transport Executive)'s (now superseded) in the former Metropolitan Council Areas (Greater Manchester, Merseyside, West and South Yorkshire, Tyne & Wear, West Midlands).  There was some talk in 1973 that Avon should be a Metropolitan County but it did not happen so Avon never had a PTE. 

GMPTE^▸ (Greater Manchester Passenger Transport Executive. Now TfGM) had done the leg work on Manchester Metro, which was still on the drawing board, but it took a visionary councillor in Greater Manchester to pick up the pieces after abolition and get the districts to push it through even though at the time it was only going to serve 3 out of the 10 districts. The extensions since then mean that its routes now reach into 7 out of the 10 councils. 

So what was different about Bristol? 

1) It was not in a metropolitan county, this had two implications:

• if it had been the districts would have had far more control over many of their services (they would have controlled education and social services, but not highways and transport) and they might not have built up such bitterness towards each other.
• they would have had a PTE who could have done the leg work properly.

2) It did not have the visionary councillor to pull the districts together. 

[simonw]

All true, and Avon had Richard Cotterell MEP^▸ (Member of European Parliament), proposing and establishing the Avon Metro, only to have it opposed by local politicians.

[martyjon]

So, why can't we in Greater Bristol, have Avon Transport Executive?

We have now, its the Metro Mayor, Tim Bowles and WECA^» (West of England Combined Authority - about), West of England Combined Authority. We were advised of that at our last and final meeting of my LA's transport forum and that meetings would in future rotate between Bristol, Bath and Kingswood as long as South Gloucestershire hang on to their centre there in which case it could relocate SG's hosting venue to either Thornbury or Yate.

North Somerset were the killers off of any Avon PTE^▸ (Passenger Transport Executive) because the person in the chairmans role at this parish councils Transport Committee had the better CV as regards being CEO^▸ (Chief Executive Officer) of the PTE over Bristols, Baths or SGs but knew he wouldn't get it as Central Government would impose one of their cronies to the role and without a unanimous agreement no PTE could be set up.

The Metro Mayor / WECA have done nothing except call for reports on transport matters since its inception and only in the past week or so have I read that yet another report has been called for. North Somerset, having scuppered the Avon PTE, voted to exclude the parish from the combined authority but now has the audacity to hold their mits out for handouts from WECA AND ARE GETTING allocations from the Metro Mayors £1 billion 3 year budget handed him by Central Government.

[ellendune]

North Somerset, having scuppered the Avon PTE^▸ (Passenger Transport Executive), voted to exclude the parish from the combined authority but now has the audacity to hold their mits out for handouts from WECA^» (West of England Combined Authority - about) AND ARE GETTING allocations from the Metro Mayors £1 billion 3 year budget handed him by Central Government.

Of course they are "having your cake and eating it" is now official government policy. 

[martyjon]

North Somerset, having scuppered the Avon PTE^▸ (Passenger Transport Executive), voted to exclude the parish from the combined authority but now has the audacity to hold their mits out for handouts from WECA^» (West of England Combined Authority - about) AND ARE GETTING allocations from the Metro Mayors £1 billion 3 year budget handed him by Central Government.

Of course they are "having your cake and eating it" is now official government policy. 

If I were Tim Bowles I would hold my clenched fist upwards, unfurl my middle finger and say to them, "go to the bakers and buy your own cake".

[martyjon]

All true, and Avon had Richard Cotterell MEP^▸ (Member of European Parliament), proposing and establishing the Avon Metro, only to have it opposed by local politicians.

Just to clarify, from memory, the original proposal by Richard Cotterell / ATA (proposed Avon Transit Authority) was scuppered by Bristol City Council who amongst their elected representatives before she was elected as an MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) was a certain Dawn Primarollo. The reason being that a Socialist administration in Briistol could not countenance a private company running a major transport system in Bristol.

Years later an attempt to resurrect the tram network was attempted by Bristol and Northavon (now part of South Gloucestershire) councils but the bickering that killed off that was that Bristol wanted the tram network from the city centre to terminate at the growing Bradley Stoke housing development but Northavon wanted it to continue to the growing Cribbs Causeway retail areas, Bristol fearing it would take away trade from Broadmead.