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Author Topic: MetroBus  (Read 236477 times)
TonyK
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« Reply #810 on: December 19, 2018, 22:44:48 »

CNG (Compressed Natural Gas) /= Compressed Natural Gas.

One of the many reasons M1 was delayed was because they had to fit special CNG tanks to the BCT Group depot in Bedminster, beforehand only First's Lawrence Hill depot had the correct kit for the job.

I knew that First obtained planning permission and £1,000,000 or so of public money for a CNG refuelling thingy at Lawrence Hill, but I didn't know that BCT were getting one too.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 17:22:32 by Tony (Formerly FT, N!) » Logged

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martyjon
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« Reply #811 on: December 20, 2018, 13:51:10 »

For forum members interested the m1 timetable is at ;-

https://www.firstgroup.com/uploads/maps/J12790%20metrobus%20m1%20timetable%20AW%20web.pdf
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TonyK
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« Reply #812 on: December 20, 2018, 16:24:21 »


It hasn't changed since I posted it last week then.  Grin
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« Reply #813 on: December 20, 2018, 17:52:57 »


It hasn't changed since I posted it last week then.  Grin


Sorry Tony, hadn't realised or remembered that it had already been notified to forum members by yourself.
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TonyK
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« Reply #814 on: December 20, 2018, 18:09:45 »

No problem! I think I found out from Another Place. You are my usual scout for MetroBust news, be it grave or trivial.
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« Reply #815 on: December 20, 2018, 22:04:35 »

One thing that is a puzzle to me and to my suspicious mind is the link between the Metrobust organisation, First Group and BCT (Bristol Community Transport).

Way back in the darker days of delays with the preparation of the infrastructure a news headline read something like the Metrobust organisation were unable to find a bus operator to operate this lengthy m1 route. The timescale on this may have been before the decision of the Metrobust organisation to abandon the concept of the service operator paying the organisation fees to use the infrastructure (akin to Network Rails Track Access Charges).

Then there came the surprise that BCT, a charitable organisation, were to operate the m1 route, whats more. is to operate the route using brand new CNG (Compressed Natural Gas) fuelled vehicles. Now where has a charity got cash resources to splash out on what £700,000.00 each on a fleet of buses to operate the service on what, I have read, under contract to First Bus. Maybe, First Group, would not have been eligible for grants to obtain the fleet of vehicles to operate the route but by nominating a charitable body to operate the service, the Metrobust organisation was able to manipulate the rules. By now I sense a nasty smell drifting past my sensitive nose particularly as an earlier post suggested that First Bus had received a £1 million grant to install a CNG refuelling point at the Lawrence Hill depot. I have seen it reported that delays to the opening of the m1 service being due to the need to install a CNG refuelling point at their Parsons Street depot which BCT have moved into latterly because their previous premises were too small to operate this m1 service out of.

Earlier today I saw a photo on the Bristol Post website of a line up of at least 7 branded vehicles for the m1 route in which JF appeared together with 3 males which I did not recognise. I CAN understand why JF was in the piccy due to the 'under contract to First' emphasised in recent publicity but it would be nice for Metrobus to acknowledge the assistance First Bus has given the Metrobus outfit in getting m1 ready to commence services on January 6th 2019.

Also the paper tickets issued at the I-Points alse bare all the hallmarks of being a First Bus ticket, I cant see the Metrobust organisation modifying the I-Point software to issue the paper tickets for use on First Bus service m3 only of or for use on BCT operated service m1 only. they'll all be issued as First tickets although the credit/debit card receipt comes out baring the logo of TravelWest. That's something else !!!!

I shall have to be quick now as I'm quickly getting to the point where I will need oxygen to survive but having browsed online a combined timetable earlier today of the m1, m3 and U3 service, it has all the hallmarks of being a typical First Bus Bristol publication. See it at ;-

https://www.firstgroup.com/uploads/news-attach/m1_m3_u3.pdf


Now wheres that oxygen.

« Last Edit: December 28, 2018, 20:12:34 by martyjon » Logged
TonyK
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« Reply #816 on: December 20, 2018, 23:47:48 »

I have wondered at the setup too. Back at the dawn of the MetroBust project, when Tim Kent was the Bristol Councillor in charge and the Lib Dems (remember them?) were in charge of the council, charges to use the infrastructure were an important part of the plan. The idea was for the councils to be able to borrow enough money to pay for their share of the £160 million cost of the three schemes, and recover it in part from payments by grateful bus operators. There would not just be the Long Ashton Park and Ride, oh no! All the buses from Portishead, Clevedon and Weston Super Mare would use the new guided busway too. The Post asked someone from First - might have been James Freeman, I'm not sure - what they thought of this. The short answer was that they didn't see any need for the guided bit, and wouldn't pay to use it. They also said it would be silly to have the out-of-town buses using it because of the considerably lengthened journey time, what with the distance and the wait for the single-track section.

The lack of an operator so long into the process was another puzzlement. The Cambridgeshire BRT (Bus Rapid Transit) had two operators signed up before construction began, although their expensive new buses had to wait 3 years to use the guided bit. Now whatever some people in Bristol may think, First know how to run buses. So do Stagecoach, RATP, Arriva, Goahead, and others. You would have expected quite a tussle between the big boys if this was ever going to be a jewel in the crown, but there was only silence. Because?

Maybe because the nature of MetroBust is not that of a franchise. Any operator can apply to run services on it so long as they agree to abide by the terms of the Quality Partnership Scheme (QPS) which covers quality of vehicles, frequency, fares, performance monitoring etc. This rather leaves the councils over a barrel. First only agreed to take on the M2 and M3 routes after the tolls were suspended for an unspecified period. Any other operator could test the water, but none has chosen to do so. If they decide to reinstate the fees, the bus operators can say no, and alter their routes. The WECA» (West of England Combined Authority - about) mayor could take control under the powers he has been urged to use, but that takes the risk largely out of the bus companies' hands,a and they can tell him that if he is effect making them use toll roads, he had better pay the tolls for them.

Of course, we are now looking at how the councils will fund their share of a much bigger bill - around £250 million that has been admitted so far. There is no other guaranteed revenue stream - much depends on Community Infrastructure Levy payments from developers for houses not yet at the planning stage, and they are not normally used to pay off debt incurred previously. Another source of income was going to be voluntary donations by local companies eager to help a scheme that will profit them greatly. So far, the Airport has chipped in a million, and that's it. You could say there is something of a black hole in the finances.

So why BCT? Were MetroBust reluctant, having told us what a magnificent change in the way we do transport MetroBust would be, to hand the whole lot over to the dominant player in the city on a plate? Or are First boxing clever, and offloading at least some of the risk of running potentially the most awkward of the three routes? The grants martyjon mentions for buses and refuelling kit were not, IIRC (if I recall/remember/read correctly), awarded to specific companies - I don't know what deal was struck behind closed doors to allocate the cash. First are the operators of the route, AIUI (as I understand it), and have contracted the actual work to BCT. Has a similar setup ever happened somewhere else?

I'm puzzled.
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #817 on: December 21, 2018, 07:55:25 »

Is BCT not owned by the City Council? Could it be that it was seen as a way to support a charitable organisation when the council don't have the funds?
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martyjon
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« Reply #818 on: December 21, 2018, 08:50:02 »

Is BCT not owned by the City Council? Could it be that it was seen as a way to support a charitable organisation when the council don't have the funds?

No. AIUI (as I understand it) BCT is part of the HCT group. Google 'HCT Group' for more detail.
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« Reply #819 on: December 21, 2018, 09:50:51 »

https://www.firstgroup.com/uploads/news-attach/m1_m3_u3.pdf

Anyone spotted the deliberate mistake tracing the route of the U3 on the route map. Any double decker complying with the routing shown starting as a double decker would end up at the other end as a single decker. If single deckers are used have the visionaries of Metrobust produced a visionary exit from and entry to the M32 from Hambrooks Filton Road.
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #820 on: December 21, 2018, 11:16:28 »

Not sure which low bridge you have in mind, but I have to agree that passengers would feel one hell of a bump when they turned left off the M32 slip road and fell 4m onto Filton Road...
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martyjon
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« Reply #821 on: December 21, 2018, 11:42:31 »

Not sure which low bridge you have in mind, but I have to agree that passengers would feel one hell of a bump when they turned left off the M32 slip road and fell 4m onto Filton Road...

That's the low bridge which carries the M32 and slip roads over Filton Road, Hambrook but what I posted was misleading as it would only apply in one direction, UWE to the City Centre would the double decker conversion occur. Posted before I had engaged my brain again.
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #822 on: December 21, 2018, 19:56:39 »

Is BCT not owned by the City Council? Could it be that it was seen as a way to support a charitable organisation when the council don't have the funds?

No. AIUI (as I understand it) BCT is part of the HCT group. Google 'HCT Group' for more detail.
You're right. And their website says they run several non-Metro bus routes in Bristol too.
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TonyK
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« Reply #823 on: December 22, 2018, 00:41:48 »

Is BCT not owned by the City Council? Could it be that it was seen as a way to support a charitable organisation when the council don't have the funds?

No. AIUI (as I understand it) BCT is part of the HCT group. Google 'HCT Group' for more detail.
You're right. And their website says they run several non-Metro bus routes in Bristol too.

Correct about HCT, and also correct about other non-MetroBust services in the area. The latter tend to be the oddments of the network, though, those little low-frequency services between points that other companies don't think would work, using smaller single-deck vehicles. The ones I know about in Bristol are:
505 - Long Ashton Park and Ride to Southmead Hospital
506 - Broadmead to Southmead Hospital
511 - Bedminster to Hengrove
512 - Broadmead to Bedminster
52 - South Bristol Hospital to Old Market

The 511 and 512 take a less than direct route, to connect up bits of the city in between. I think the 52 was taken over from ABus. All are subsidised. It seems a huge leap from six bus a day community bus routes run in other companies' hand-me-downs to six buses per hour in spanky new ultra-green vehicles.
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martyjon
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« Reply #824 on: December 22, 2018, 09:53:47 »

Is BCT not owned by the City Council? Could it be that it was seen as a way to support a charitable organisation when the council don't have the funds?

No. AIUI (as I understand it) BCT is part of the HCT group. Google 'HCT Group' for more detail.
You're right. And their website says they run several non-Metro bus routes in Bristol too.

Correct about HCT, and also correct about other non-MetroBust services in the area. The latter tend to be the oddments of the network, though, those little low-frequency services between points that other companies don't think would work, using smaller single-deck vehicles. The ones I know about in Bristol are:
505 - Long Ashton Park and Ride to Southmead Hospital
506 - Broadmead to Southmead Hospital
511 - Bedminster to Hengrove
512 - Broadmead to Bedminster
52 - South Bristol Hospital to Old Market

The 511 and 512 take a less than direct route, to connect up bits of the city in between. I think the 52 was taken over from ABus. All are subsidised. It seems a huge leap from six bus a day community bus routes run in other companies' hand-me-downs to six buses per hour in spanky new ultra-green vehicles.

My bolding in the quotes above summarises precisely what led me to post earlier on this thread of an obnoxious smell drifting past my nose and led to my puzzlement coupled with my suspicious mind in questioning whether or not there is something underhanded 'work in progress' to get this final phase up and running.

By the way, can I make a request to First Bus, I am fed up viewing the video on these lovely SCANIA buses and am fed up with being told that if everyone used m-tickets it would save 98,123 litres of fuel, 148,987 trees, 987 miles of paper tickets .... Can we have a new video for the New Year please.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2018, 16:13:44 by martyjon » Logged
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