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Author Topic: Eurostar storing bikes in disabled toilets  (Read 7290 times)
Chris from Nailsea
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« on: July 19, 2016, 23:01:57 »

From the BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Quote
Eurostar storing bikes in disabled toilets

Bicycles are being stored in disabled toilets on some of Eurostar's international services to and from France, the BBC has learned.

Disability charities said it was not acceptable, with Transport for All saying it showed "clear disrespect".

Eurostar said it was "occasionally" using one of two disabled toilets on some trains as a "temporary measure".

It follows the introduction of new trains which do not have goods carriages for bike storage.

Last October, Eurostar told cyclists that bicycles would have to be taken apart and carried in special bike boxes for travel on its services. The new rules were quickly reversed after thousands of emails of complaint, and criticism from then Mayor of London, Boris Johnson.

The use of a disabled toilet as alternative cycle storage was "appalling", one member of train crew who spoke to BBC News anonymously said. "The company has caved in to the bike lobby. This sends a terrible message to disabled passengers."

Eurostar said wheelchair passengers were always seated near the available disabled toilet and the number of disabled passengers that could be booked on each train was not affected. "This temporary arrangement hasn't had any impact on passengers with reduced mobility," it said. "All passengers using wheelchairs have been able to travel and have full use of the accessible toilet facilities and this will continue to be the case."

But charities say that those who might need accessible toilets are not always in wheelchairs, may not identify themselves as requiring assistance and could be seated near a toilet being used for a bicycle.


A bicycle being stored in one of Eurostar's disabled toilets, taken from an internal report, seen by BBC News

"This inconsiderate action demonstrates a clear disrespect for many passengers," said Transport for All chairman Alan Benson. "These facilities are essential for people with a variety of impairments, not just wheelchair users. Disabled passengers must not be allowed to suffer as a result of extremely poor design of these multi-million pound trains."

Philip Connolly of Disability Rights UK (United Kingdom) said the move amounted to "discrimination" against disabled people.

The BBC understands that a number of internal reports have been raised after distressed passengers complained at the lack of available disabled facilities.

Members of Eurostar's own staff have expressed their unhappiness at the policy. "The new trains have a disabled toilet at each end," the BBC's source explained. "But if one of those is filled with a bike, a passenger has to walk the whole length of the train to reach an accessible toilet. It's just not possible to always sit disabled people near the working loo. There have certainly been times when disabled passengers have been in distress."

Cycling UK, which led the campaign for bicycles to be allowed on board, expressed its surprise at the new policy and said it was not acceptable. "Clearly there isn't a solution yet that has been presented by Eurostar to meet 21st century travel needs," said chief executive Paul Tuohy.

Mick Lynch, the RMT (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) union's national organiser with responsibility for Eurostar, said: "They decided they wanted more seats on the new trains so they took out the luggage stowage facility. It was a commercial decision. The staff are fed up with it. It's awkward, hiding a bike in a disabled toilet."

Eurostar continues to encourage cyclists to use bike boxes and fully assembled bikes are put on old-style trains when available. It says it is in the process of modifying the luggage space on the new trains to include space for larger items including fully assembled bikes. But this will take many months to complete and will not be ready for the busy summer season.


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William Huskisson MP (Member of Parliament) was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830.  Many more have died in the same way since then.  Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.

"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner."  Discuss.
eightf48544
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« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2016, 09:30:36 »

Just shows the railways obsession with the minimum number of carriages with the maximum passenger capacity. Who don't have any luggage, buggies, bicycles etc. 

Rather have extra coaches with storage or run more trains of existing lenght with storage space.

The German IC (Inter City) DVTs(resolve) have around 30 reservable bike spaces.
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trainer
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« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2016, 09:46:15 »

Just shows the railways obsession with the minimum number of carriages with the maximum passenger capacity. Who don't have any luggage, buggies, bicycles etc. 

The lack of planning for the world as it is pointed out by eightf48544 makes one again wonder if some designers of train specifications actually use them or observe what happens. It's not only in the train world. Town Planners seem to think that they can stop people owning cars by not providing parking spaces, but neither do they provide public transport (it's privatised, how can they?). The Eurostar and TGV (Train a Grande Vitesse) have never had sufficient luggage capacity for a full train in my experience and this story seems ridiculous in 2016 after years of running them. At least the low-cost airlines offer opportunities to bring bulkier baggage if needed at a price.  I wonder how that pricing system would go down with those who prefer rail travel?

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chrisr_75
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« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2016, 10:42:18 »

Just shows the railways obsession with the minimum number of carriages with the maximum passenger capacity. Who don't have any luggage, buggies, bicycles etc. 
At least the low-cost airlines offer opportunities to bring bulkier baggage if needed at a price.  I wonder how that pricing system would go down with those who prefer rail travel?

Probably not very well at all, as there is a perception at least (note - I don't particularly want to kick off the old air vs rail cost debate...) that budget air travel is much better value for money than rail travel, so a 'tax' on bags would likely be not well received!

Sadly I think we are long past the days of having a parcels/luggage/newspaper van on every longish distance train. Without DfT» (Department for Transport - about) insisting on such facilities through franchise conditions, the TOC (Train Operating Company)'s will always simply regard it as mostly 'dead' space which won't earn any money for 95% of the time.
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ellendune
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« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2016, 18:40:11 »

While the main complaint of passengers is not having a seat. It would be a brave minster who authorised converting some to luggage space.
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didcotdean
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« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2016, 19:11:48 »

They are charging people with bikes £30 to take them if they remain assembled and guaranteed to be on the same train as the owner (through their Eurodespatch service). If you are willing to accept it being on any train this is reduced to £25 but you might not get your bike back for a day, which seems a bit limiting.

Charging for a facility though implies they ought to have proper arrangements, not sticking it in a toilet.
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Tim
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« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2016, 09:11:18 »

While the main complaint of passengers is not having a seat. It would be a brave minster who authorised converting some to luggage space.

As I understand it on Eurostar everyone has a seat because reservations (and the ridiculous " lets play at being an airline" checkin) is compulsory.
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broadgage
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« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2016, 12:39:17 »

While the main complaint of passengers is not having a seat. It would be a brave minster who authorised converting some to luggage space.

Yes, but no great bravery is needed to insist that new trains be longer AND incorporate room for luggage and cycles.
A start could be made by building some extra intermediate IEP (Intercity Express Program / Project.) vehicles that contain a proper bike and luggage store AND some EXTRA seats.

Build say 20 intermediate vehicles with a guards van, and another 20 with a buffet.
Modify all of the 9 car trains by removing 2 standard intermediate coaches and substituting one buffet and one coach with a Guards van.
Use the remaining new vehicles and the all standard seating vehicles that were removed from the 9 car trains to make a number of 5 car sets into 9 car sets.

This keeps a uniform fleet, with ALL 9 the car trains containing the same facilities, and a greater number of 9 car trains.

The 9 car trains would suffer a regrettable loss of seating capacity, but overall seating capacity of the fleet has been increased by about 28 coaches (presuming that the newly built vehicles each contain about 70% seats and about 30% buffet or cycle store)
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2016, 13:39:42 »

At least the low-cost airlines offer opportunities to bring bulkier baggage if needed at a price. 

Not through design though.  Easyjet only has space for bulky luggage because their planes were designed with other considerations in mind (ie keeping a round cross section)  and as a result they have lots of "spare" luggage space under the floor otherwise doing nothing.  Rather like the old trains that had plenty of spare guards van space which was originally provided for a different purpose. 
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ellendune
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« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2016, 19:02:09 »

While the main complaint of passengers is not having a seat. It would be a brave minster who authorised converting some to luggage space.

Yes, but no great bravery is needed to insist that new trains be longer AND incorporate room for luggage and cycles.
A start could be made by building some extra intermediate IEP (Intercity Express Program / Project.) vehicles that contain a proper bike and luggage store AND some EXTRA seats.

Build say 20 intermediate vehicles with a guards van, and another 20 with a buffet.
Modify all of the 9 car trains by removing 2 standard intermediate coaches and substituting one buffet and one coach with a Guards van.
Use the remaining new vehicles and the all standard seating vehicles that were removed from the 9 car trains to make a number of 5 car sets into 9 car sets.

This keeps a uniform fleet, with ALL 9 the car trains containing the same facilities, and a greater number of 9 car trains.

The 9 car trains would suffer a regrettable loss of seating capacity, but overall seating capacity of the fleet has been increased by about 28 coaches (presuming that the newly built vehicles each contain about 70% seats and about 30% buffet or cycle store)

I am not sure those passengers crammed and standing on peak trains will really appreciate the extra facilities.  In what paths will these additional trains run to make up for this loss of capacity on each 9 car train?

I am also sure that cyclists will not want to pay the fare that would be needed to pay the additional cost. If they did companies might provide them anyway. 
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2016, 20:38:18 »

While the main complaint of passengers is not having a seat. It would be a brave minster who authorised converting some to luggage space.

As I understand it on Eurostar everyone has a seat because reservations (and the ridiculous " lets play at being an airline" checkin) is compulsory.
The airline-style check in might have started as a bit of vanity-inspired status-seeking, but the odd thing now is that cross-Channel ferries don't have something similar. (Or perhaps they do – I haven't been on one for several years, but I haven't heard mention of it.)
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Bob_Blakey
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« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2016, 10:22:39 »

As I understand it on Eurostar everyone has a seat because reservations (and the ridiculous " lets play at being an airline" checkin) is compulsory.

I am obviously missing something here; last time I used the Eurostar service - in January - I don't recall any 'check-in' process. My print-at-home ticket got me through the barrier, I sat down in the lounge after passing through security / immigration and then went to the train when departure was announced. This is little different to catching a train from, say, Paddington except for the obvious fact that St.Pancras / Paris / Brussels are international borders.
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Rhydgaled
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« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2016, 13:30:11 »

Just shows the railways obsession with the minimum number of carriages with the maximum passenger capacity.
Eurostar trains are hardly minimum length, they must be almost twice the length of the 12-car 450s that run in and out of Waterloo!
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----------------------------
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